Liveries!

With the news that Thompson B1 61264 is to be repainted as LNER black 1264 it will bring the NYMR's fleet of pre-BR liveried engines to 4 (1264, 5428, 926 and 825), making a welcome change from all-BR colours. Are any other lines likely to follow suit?

 

SVR has 2857 and 1450 (with 4150 to come) in GW green with 13268 to enter traffic in with its original LMS livery and identity, stretching it slightly but there's also 3 loco's there that can't wear a BR livery (WD 600, Lady A and Dunrobin) And over here in Anglia at Sheringham we have a B12, N2 and Y14 and a Y7 in non BR colours.

 

All three S15s at the Mid Hants are due to enter service in non BR liveries over the next few years. 499 in LSWR livery, 506 in Southern wartime black and 828 in Maunsell green.

 

The Bluebell can offer 847 in Southern olive green and 65, 178 and 263 in SE&CR livery, plus 323 in a "Bluebell blue" variation of the same (admittedly, 178 is on loan to the NRM At the moment). Rather ironically for a line known for fielding locos in pre-BR liveries, the next two engines to return to steam will be 80151 and 34059, where there isn't really any alternative. What is more the new Atlantic will initially run in its BR guise as 32424. The line's third P class, No. 27, however, is due to appear in Southern olive green. I'm not sure whether a decision has yet been made about Stowe. The Maunsell society historically has favoured SR olive green for its engines, apart from 541, but either it or the Bluebell has been presented with the genuine "30928" smokebox numberplate, which was owned by a recently deceased Bluebell member, with a suggestion (Nothing more) in the news article that it is possible for Stowe to be painted in BR livery at some point in its "ticket" so that it can run with its original smokebox numberplate.

Haters of BR livery must be hoping that the Flour Mill will say that the Swanage Railway's T3 is in good enough condition to be restored to working order as it was withdrawn in 1945 and thus never carried BR livery - in fact, I don't think it was even repainted into wartime black, but I'm open to correction here.

 

The Bluebell currently has 65, 263 and 178 in SE&CR liveries; and 847 in SR livery. There is a possibility that 30541 may be repainted to SR livery this year.

Tom

 

I rather hope this is the start of a trend moving more to Pre-BR liveries.

I don't have an issue with the BR colour schemes, but it is really nice to see some variety- and I really like to see the craftsmanship that goes into the more intricate schemes like the SECR locos.

Chris

 

Agreed, it’s nice to have a bit of variety.

I’m hoping that the T3 restoration will be the start of Swanage moving away from it’s BR livery policy. Maybe we will see 53 and 120 in LSWR or SR colours in future. Or perhaps even 21c170 in SR green - would be highly appropriate as the last loco built by the Southern Railway.

I’m just waiting for all the silly ‘the paint is only a protective coating, it doesn’t matter what colour it is’ comments to start though!

 

What I would like to see is not so much more pre-BR liveries on locomotives but more pre-BR trains. Admittedly, I'm talking partly with my photographer's hat on. I can't be bothered to photograph a loco in a pre-BR livery hauling a rake of Mk 1s. It just doesn't look right (Yes, I do know about pannier tank 4628 that was running in the early 1960s still with "GWR" visible on the tank sides, but this was very much the exception).

However, there's more to it than that. Speaking as a passenger rather than a photographer, I will always plump for an older carriage if there is the opportunity to do so. I'd therefore like to see more pre-nationalisation stock on heritage lines and it's great that there is a growing interest in vintage stock on a number of lines that have traditionally been bastions of Mk 1s. It's all very well to say that "Railways didn't suddenly come into being in 1948", but it requires older carriages, as well as a loco in a pre-BR livery, if you want to make that point convincingly!

 

I take it you didn't do much steam photography in the 60s and 70s then. C Class in plain green with two BR blue MK.1 suburbans was not an uncommon sight on the Bluebell - other strange combinations were available. And the main line scene was full of Big Four liveries on the front of blue and grey stock. Most of us didn't care though, it was steam and that's all that mattered.

 

That could be said for the majority of us young enthusiasts who can’t remember steam running pre 1968. As long as steam is at the head - it doesn’t matter what the livery is, or what the livery is of the train it’s pulling.

On the note of pre-BR liveries appearing... (4)5305 is emerging in LMS livery when the intermediate overhaul is complete.

 

Seeing a B1 in the original LNER livery of the B1s will be a sight for sore eyes. I cannot wait - will make a special trip to see that! Excellent news and I hope it helps in whatever way possible to convince a few other owners to go for pre-grouping and grouping liveries at the next overhaul of their charges.

I am not wholly against BR liveries - I favour Scotsman in BR green due to its physical condition (double kylchap, deflectors) but where possible I'd like to see the private railway company liveries - because they are bright, and intricate, and wonderful, and they engross the general public so.

 

Steam in all its shapes and forms is a joy to behold. Locos with rakes to match the livery of the loco, of whatever period, do look really good but if traffic requirements are such that loco and rolling stock liveries end up getting mixed around, so what?

 

I would imagine there's a goodly number of people on here who weren't even conceived in that period. I was three when steam ended, and New England had ceased to be a steam shed before I was born.

 

I find that those who dislike a “pick n’ mix”approach to livery combinations are mostly those who remember steam in B.R. days and the younger enthusiasts are less likely to have hang ups about “incorrect” combinations. There will always be exceptions of course.

 

Why is that point of view 'silly'? I can only assume that your definition of 'silly' is 'a point of view with which I don't happen to agree', which one might argue is silly (using the true definition of the word) in itself.

The first part of it is entirely factual and, regarding the second part, shouldn't different points of view be something that democracy is founded on? Or are you writing as one of PH's Taliban-esque fellows?

 

Well funnily enough, over here in Ireland we have no BR liveries....but that's being a bit silly!!!


Keith

 

So that's what is meant by the luck of the Irish!

Sawdust.

 

I wasn't old enough to own a camera in the 1960s!

I do, however, remember, the main line scene in the late 1970s/early 1980s when, the GWS vintage rake excepted, most main line steam trains consisted of blue-grey stock. Yes, it was good just that steam was still running and like you, I was grateful. That was all that was on offer.

The fact is, in 2018, we're in a different world. A more authentic look, be it of a 1950s/60s train or one some lines a 1930s or even 1900s train, is now possible. We have the luxury of being able to be fussy and I'm very appreciative of this.

I would also add that (i) not everybody is necessarily bothered about mismatched locos and stock. I have my views but am happy to live and let live and (ii) the issue of "authenticity" is a complex one. To reduce it to a single example to prove the point - a Black Five hauling a rake of maroon Mk 1s would have been a far from uncommon sight in the days of BR steam, but it's most unlikely that any example of the class ever ventured down the Swanage branch before 1967 so is my picture of 44932 (see thumbnail image) "authentic"? It is theoretically possible that such a combination of loco and stock could have visited this particular location but well-nigh certain that it didn't happen. So where do we draw the line? Answer: where we feel comfortable, which boils down to our individual subjective feelings.

 

Are you forgetting the Severn Valley GWR train?

 

I like a mixture personally. Some locos look good in BR livery, personally I think Black 5s and Duchesses do, some look good in either. I do think the BR steam era liveries were smart though.

Of pre nationalisation ones, I like the pre war Southern olive green with the large numbers, and, of course LMS red. The GWR green I like too. Pre grouping, LNWR and LYR, also the GER blue was smart too