Current and Proposed New-Builds

The Llangollen group own two tenders currently at the mid Norfolk railway as well.

And I'm not sure what from the Manchester united group is actually real and what is a mock up.

 

Arggh! That dreaded word "nice" again. Without a lot of hard work and financial sacrifice precisely nothing will happen irrespective of whether a project is nice or not. Railway enthusiasts need a periodic reality check.

PH

 

I've looked at quite a few threads on here, and the question that comes to mind is: How many different ways are there of asking 'Whet is you favourite / least favourite locomotive?'

 

It seems this thread has just turned into "post a picture of a random loco"...

 

I was under the impression that most of what the Man Utd group has built is mock up.

 

That was my understanding also - certainly the smokebox saddle looked very flimsy. To me this project just seems like unnecessary duplication and if the Man.Utd. group really want to see a recreated B17 they would be better to support the Sandringham group.
Ray.

 

Or both groups could combine and build one loco.
Run the engine as Spirit of Sandringham when completed, then as Manchester United on occasion.

 

Wasn't the plan for one group to be building 2 machines. Some one suggesting that if one was to be named Manchester United, they'd be able to tap into the limitless money pit that is Manchester United Football Club and it's worldwide fan base......... Hence the split with the two factions going their separate way.

 

Lots of engines that we might like to have saved, or weren't around anymore when the progression of time brought about the desire (to say nothing about the money) to save examples. So, what do we want, what we see as attractive options purely due to our aesthetic sensibilities, or what we deem to be of benefit because the engine, or engines, will be of great use now considering that most preserved lines have to work trains that are far heavier, and sometimes more frequent, than they were back in pre preservation days?

I think that we are not considered things quite as well as we ought to be. Coming at things from a different direction I read once of an engine being referred to as a " boiler makers best friend". Some of you might have too. The locomotive in question was the J39. Perhaps not an obvious subject at first sight but in terms of a preserved line engine it has something to recommend it. The boiler is highly regarded, free steaming and easy to repair. It is equally at home on 3 or 4 coaches as it is to twice that number. The ability to run at 60mph plus is irrelevant. The tractive effort/adhesion balance is not. From a railway management viewpoint an engine that is capable of handling a wide range of loading with, on balance, advantageous maintenance benefits has much to recommend it.

 

As in the TV presenter, Carol.

 

It's a lovely thought and I like it! - but it's primarily a freight engine. As has been discussed, elsewhere, some will prefer the 'Bugatti' nose, some will prefer the original. Also, is the Doncaster one intended for mainline use?

 

Wasn’t there a FaceBook group set up for a newbuild J39?

 

Yes there was - with a copper boiler!!!

Probably best not to go there...

 

Is being “the boiler maker’s best friend” a good thing? I’d read that as implying requiring a lot of maintenance - a bit like how being “the coal merchant’s friend” isn’t generally meant as a compliment.

Tom

 

Quite! Some of us have tried occasionally to gently nudge the discussion towards what might be useful additions to the running fleet for heritage line use. But I think that counts as blinkered and unromantic.
Having sad which, "what's your favourite loco" is a topic with no rules, no end in sight, and giving the excuse to post lots of photos of nice locos we're mostly forgotten about. What's not to like?

 

Unromantic? Not really.

Blinkered? Certainly not! Anything but.

Paul H

 

In this case no. You like your work being difficult? Well, maybe, to a point. But when working conditions are poor, you are struggling against time and against the obstacles presented by unfortunate design? This boiler was evidently a free steaming, trouble free (given the quality of some of the water availability in some areas where they were used a remarkable achievement) and easy to repair. A fireman's friend is a locomotive that steams freely even when fed with low quality fuel and is quite flexible with regard to technique. An engine referred to as a " miner's best friend" or "black pig" is no friend of a fireman but rather the friend of a miner or mine owner. So a boiler that needs much repair and maintenance attention is the friend of those who produce and supply boiler plate, arsenical copper, Low Moor iron etc.

 

I guess it comes down to having a (slightly) better reason for any new build than simply "Because I/we can". It's noticable that many suggestions on this thread for smaller locos have received a barrage of "it's not big enough to be any use" comments.

It's easily forgotten that Darwinian-esque 'natural selection' weeded out many designs which look cute enough in old photos, but clearly weren't up to the job over the longer timescale (e.g. the lovely looking Caley "Cardeans").

The Stroudley D1 (which I mentioned a couple of months back) has to represent one of the most significant gaps in the LBSC/Southern story, but how useful would one be in reality? Just beacause the pneumatic 'Brighton' P-P system could handle up to 3+3 carriages (fore and aft of the loco) doesn't mean a D1 could readily lift five or six up to East Grinstead, day in and day out .... although to judge by old photos of these locos on South London services pre-overhead electrification, I'm not 100% convinced that'd be a problem in this instance.

Another major consideration is appropriate rolling stock. In the case of the LBSC, there's not a single Marsh-Panter "balloon" left in existance and other Brighton bogie stock (on the mainland, at least) is nearly as rare as rocking horse droppings. This also applies to, for example the MR Johnson locos or GW Dean 'single' mentioned, or indeed any number of designs from the 1860's to WWI.

Would any amongst our number not wince at the sight of a 'Jenny Lind' at the head of a rake of MkI's (or, Bob forbid, MkII's)? And what about on-train catering? Like it or not, it's a significant source of income, even if authentic branch line services 'back then' weren't exactly noted for the sort of facilities yer actual modern day visitor expects.

So, if anyone suggests an Adams G6 or T1, how's about some 'Gate Stock' to go with it? That would certainly keep the vehicle acceptance wallahs busy for a while! Or, should newbuilds be prioritised to suit those unrestored carriages which exist at many locations? There are valid arguments to be made both ways

 

One thing which has to be remembered is that few of us are old enough to remember these "sensible sized" machines in main line use in any sort of decent condition. Someone I know recalls from his childhood in Poole how the M7s were barely able to haul a push-pull set of two vehicles to time. Nowadays, of course, one hauls five coaches over the Swanage Railway.

With carriages, as in so many other ways, the narrow gauge leaves the standard gauge for dust. Corris, Ffestiniog, Welsh Highland and Welshpool & Llanfair have all recreated lost items of passenger and/or goods rolling stock. On the standard gauge there seems to be a rolling stock equivalent of "big chufferitis". "Markone0philia" perhaps?

Paul H

 

Ummm.... not quite. The Doncaster mob stated that it had "been working quietly for a decade" prior to the cutting of the frames for their locomotive in 2014, at almost exactly the same time that the P2SLC were cutting theirs. But the A1SLT had made no secret of the fact that that they intended to do a P2 after Tornado, in fact as early as 1994 they asked for expressions of interest to be registered (https://www.a1steam.com/1994/06/24/cylinder-patterns-ordered/) so the Cock o' the North boys went into construction in full knowledge that the A1SLT effectively had a ten year head start on them, not to mention a stock of patterns and an approved boiler design to use. I wish the Doncaster team the best of luck but they will have to significantly up their game if they are to raise the funds to build what is likely to be a £5m locomotive in a reasonable timescale.

Foxy