Swanage Railway General Discussion

If its an AMC Pacer them I'm up for that!


Party time! Excellent!

Edited to ask, Does nobody recognise the Wayne’s World car?

 

Are those door handles are off a Morris Marina?

 

Sorry, but that looks like a hearse gone wrong.

 

Thank goodness they are banned from Southern metals ! Phew!!!!

 

Indeed, disappointing to see very poor publicity for the railway in a piece on BBC South local TV news tonight, stating pointedly that the Wareham project has received £5.5m funding from the taxpayer. Given that (if of course that is correct), why has the contractor doing the refurbishment not delivered? Or was it always open-ended?

 

I do sometimes wonder if South Western Railway running the Wareham services using 158s / 159s would be a better option. This is something that has been mooted in the past, and at one point South West Trains (as was) seemed quite keen in the idea. Then the Swanage Railway wouldn’t have the hassle / cost of maintaining trains to mainline standards. Also the trains could run through to Bournemouth or other destinations instead, making it more appealing as a normal train service to shoppers and commuters.

But I’m sure the Swanage Railway run services will be a success, and hopefully this is only a minor hiccup in the grand scheme of things.

 

I believe that the problem is that due to the 25mph speed limit it would take two sets to run the service which makes it very unattractive to a mainline TOC

 

I think even a 141 would be preferable to that. Is it a kids pedal car?

 

You got there before me!

A few have got to Eastleigh Works for overhaul with large "conditions of travel" notices some years ago. Unfortunately Mr Knight didn't flame axe them and thereby improve the railways.

Cheers, Neil

 

Modern units, Pushing the SR heritage services to the side, slashing the SR income and making the railway unsustainable?

 

Nick

If the Swanage-owned units had been available for 2017, rather than using WCR stock, would the £70K loss figure have been markedly different?

Robin

 

The vast majority of the Swanage Railway visitors come wanting a ride on a steam train. That market would be largely unaffected.

However modern units running to Bournemouth could cater for a different market. For example commuters going to work in Bounemouth (early morning and late evening being times SR services mainly don’t run anyway)

Income could be gained from track access charges from SWR, without putting the Swanage Railway at risk from the kind of losses it suffeeed last year.

 

Dream on I fear! The Swanage Railway is re-learning a painful lesson of the early years of preservation that "heritage" railways are in the entertainment rather than the transportation business. They are going about the re-learning process very sensibly though.

PH

 

The Wareham service appears to give the opportunity for more passengers to arrive by public transport, thus attracting some extra passengers and making journey options to the line more varied for others, perhaps increasing the number of times they travel. As far as I know, there was no timing of services for commuter use in last year's trial and no plans for there to be.

Being their own operator and using grant funded owned rolling stock should transform the finances for Swanage. Would I be correct that usage of the service was good, so it isn't a matter that building the market will have a major effect on the finances because the market was pretty good from day one? That said, 3 years to grow a market to 'maturity' is seen as normal.

Steven

 

To the murph mobile!

 

This article goes into much more detail.

http://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/15...railways-project-wareham-trial-train-service/

A delay to Easter 2019 is mentioned

 

I am sensing that Swanage being able to be their own operator is a major factor here. Have they actually applied for a Safety Certificate and Track Access Agreement yet?

Steven

 

Sorry for the long post but this takes us in to a big topic that needs to be understood when discussing these services. Also something for the WSR people to consider.

Not sure where those figures are coming from but there are other variables and my reply was in response to Stephenvane suggestion of the 'third option' where London South Western (other external operators are available) takes the revenue as well as operating the service.

The 'third option' raises the thorny question of 'Revenue Extraction', the process whereby people who would otherwise have used one of our services, use the third party resulting in a loss of income. We can debate all day about how big this abstraction would be, how to measure it and whether the track access charges would fully compensate for this loss (which I doubt). There is some evidence already that the 13,000 people who bought a ticket to or from Wareham in 2017 detracted from the number that we would otherwise have expected to carry anyway on our Swanage Norden services. Total visitors to the railway in 2017 increased by a lot less than 13,000. The inability to put out steam locos during the majority of our peak season unfortunately makes conclusive analysis difficult.

This Revenue Extraction would be exacerbated by any difference in fairs between the Swanage Railway services and those that the external operator might charge. The distance between Branksome and Wareham is very similar to the distance between Wareham and Swanage. An off peak day return on the former is £6.40, A Wareham - Swanage return is £15 and Norden - Swanage £13. I'm not sure where LSW would pitch their fairs or how much we would be able influence them but if they are less than either of those figures the incentive for people to use the external operator direct to Swanage whilst still enjoying our heritage stations, beautiful scenery, passing steam locos is clear. The alternative of only catching the external operator to Norden then waiting to change, buying the £13 Norden Swanage ticket (on top of their incoming fare) will attract some but I'm not happy to risk that it will be enough. If it were an 'end on' connection like the Bluebell or Midhants then the arguments would be very different. But its not! and I dont think thats possible now.

What is clear is that as the operator we are able to path the trains to achieve the best fit with our core business where as with a third party linking to the main line its possible we may have to reduce the Heratage service level to guarantee their junction arrival and departure slots. Particularly where perturbed running scenarios on either side are likely. We can not afford to be responsible for main line delays when we don't even get the main line revenue. This will lead to caution on our part and large 'white space' in the heritage time table to ensure smooth running. This further incentives the use of the third party and increases abstraction.

Lastly, I would rather sit at a station or on a Steam service and see a passing 117 DMU or class33 with TC push pull go by than a 158 which would rather shatter the scene and devalue the product we sell. As an occasional visitor they are a novelty and add to the rich variety. As an every day they become an eyesore.

Overall complex arguments to be considered and I think it very likely we would be worse off and risk damaging our sustainability. I would prefer we found a way to operate the services to everyone's satisfaction and the benefit of the local community ourselves without that risk.

A very confident assertion, not sure whats its based on but you are entitled to that opinion. I personally think it's more likely to be a net negative to us and it will be difficult to put the genie back in the bottle if it is. I wouldn't be prepared to take the risk.

 

Nick

Thanks. But is there an answer to the question? If £70K isn’t the right figure, what is? And how would it have varied if the DMU’s had been available?

Robin

 

Robin, surly (as a Barrister) you don't expect anyone who would have the answers to that, to come and discuss it here? Please check the small print below. Thanks for the invite but I'm going to decline on this occasion. You might fare better in an SR signal box. I hear they are a good place to get infogosip.

If it's your intention to make a point for the benefit of WSR followers, there are certainly lessons to draw from our experience, but I can't help in the way you ask. In anycase a lot of factors are still assumed / unknown / gossip / being worked out so be wary of anyone who thinks they have a solid answer.

I'm also making a mental note to check the SR social media policy. Do you have some recent experience of these, Robin?