West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Are you recommending a return to an open-air Gents? In this day and age, that would be off-putting to the customers, which is presumably why the new roof has been installed.
Any alternative form of roof would be worse than the present one. It is not authentic, so would be either be equally modern-looking and hence equally objectionable to you, or it would be pseudo-heritage: pretending to be something that was there all along. If the WSR is about educating people in the ways of the past, it should not be presenting something that is of today as something historic. In the past the male passengers had to do their business in the rain, which tells us something about the hardiness of men in the past, something you would not learn if presented with an undercover Gents that looked as if it had always been under cover.
The guardians of the nation's heritage, the Society for the Protection of Ancient Buildings, often approve contemporary additions to some of our most ancient buildings. Their view is that it is much better to have something that is unashamedly of its time than the "lifeless forgery" of something that tries to look as if it was always there.

 

It is worth pointing out as well, that given the current 'manning' hours of Dunster station, in particular of course long periods out of use in the winter fitting a roof must help 'conserve' the structure

 

Shrinkage factors must be considered.

 

Having read the case officer's notes and the rest of the application it does seem that a reasonable complomise has been reached. It is important to remember that there is no absolute ban on alterations to listed buildings as some [people think. It is positive to know that the WSR PLC recognised the need for LBC and applied for it.

 

With regard to the errors at Crowcombe Heathfield the WSDC planners, and conservation officer, are even more to blame.

 

I can understand both views on the proposed heritage structure - it will all come down to individuals and whether anyone seeks to 'get away with it' or everyone sticks to the system, which in turn will be greatly influenced by management attitude. In my experience, an interest in heritage in just one or two key posts can make all the difference.

What any 'commercial' preserved railway organisation has to realise is that 'heritage' is at the core of the 'product' - evoking the past as people believe it was, but also not so 'red in tooth and claw' (i.e. 'sanitised' - like not having open air gents toilets, for example!) Safe operation is essential, but 3 things can stop a preserved railway almost instantly:

1. HMRI
2. Infrastructure, Motive Power or Rolling Stock failure
3. Financial failure

Point 3 limits the ability to deal with certainly point 2 and I would suggest also requirements of point 1 (which could for example relate to a point 2 issue). Point 3 depends on many factors but commercial performance is key and the success of 'heritage' attractions is based on them 'looking right'. Given such events as the signs issue, I can understand caution in accepting the WSSRT having the 'heritage' role, but with a will to make it work, or a management willing to ensure there is such a will, I am sure it can work! The WSSRT need also to ensure they don't exceed their remit and know when to stand firm and when to compromise.

Steven

 

IMHO the Gents at Dunster without a roof was one of the charms , some of the best pubs I've drunk it had roofless Gents .

 

In answer to your first question, Yes, there being no health and safety issues. The experience of the roofless building is quite different to a roofed one and youngsters growing up probably have no concept that such things even existed. To maintain the feature in an authentic situation is genuinely educational and if it rains you learn the lesson even quicker. The education in social history continues by demonstrating that the Ladies is covered while the Gents is not. This is why schools have field trips - to experience first hand what you would otherwise only be told in the classroom.

As for the ""lifeless forgery" of something that tries to look as if it was always there" I think that has huge implications for so many of the additions and modifications to structures and accessories that adorn heritage railways. Signs, lamp standards, seats new buildings etc. When Minehead station building was extended it was done to match the existing building and to make it look as if it was one building. Does that make half of Minehead station a 'lifeless forgery'?

 

It’s 2018 not 1958!
A Gents loo should have a roof. It’s what the general public expect nowadays along with hot water and soap.
All the pubs I remember,with their awful outside loos, have had to modernise so why shouldn’t the WSR?

 

I thought it was central to our offering that we took people out of 2018 and 'transported' them to 1958. It's what we do.

 

If it is like Washford then there is a cubicle, with a lockable door and a roof. If it is raining then use the cubicle. Do you really have to have 4 blokes at a time side by side chatting in comfortable surroundings just because that is what blokes are accustomed to nowadays? Can you really not go one at a time the same as the ladies? This is probably more likely to be the staff wanting it more than the public and they object to piddling in a pan because that is 'not what blokes do'

 

I think I've come 360 degrees on my thinking of this. My first reaction was "surely a toilet needs a roof"....(not having experienced one without....although, I've made use of enough trees in my time to recognise that a roof is not essential to the process....!), but then @The Man of Kent makes a good case for heritage aspirations, (if indeed they are held), so the interested parties would need to weigh up possible inconvenience to punters in inclement weather against keeping the vibe of originality of dunster station. Would 'inconvenience' be a deal breaker that stops return visits from paying customers or would the novelty value/authentic historic educational experience become a point of difference that excites custom?

(No stake in this).

 

What is it with you WSR people? Every issue seems to produce instant factionalism involving this or that group! Now it is lavatory roofs. You really do need to show the rest of us you are not terminally argumentative.

PH

 

At the very least, it shows they give a damn!

 

I don't know, the GWSR have their extension, the GCR have the bridge and now at last there is expansion at the WSR a privy roof well done all thrusting forward as ever

 

The station may look 1958 but your car parks, some of your facilities and the towns and countryside the train travels through will remind people that it is really 2018. Heritage railways are no longer a novelty and most of your paying guests realize that it is a tourist attraction and expect some areas to have modernity. One facet not mentioned so far is the increase in the use of drones in heritage zones. No roof could equal possible embarrassment and customer annoyance.

 

Ahhhhh, but would the absent roof be at the correct angle ?

 

In the meanwhile, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, and can more do it at Minehead than Stogumber??

 

From one of the planning documents:
"West Somerset Railway would like to rectify this position and to avoid, if possible, any unfavourable comments that might be posted on social media.The provision of a new translucent and ventilated roof will bring the structure into this century"
I have no issues with installing modern sanitation, but removing a slate roof over the cubicle, and covering the whole with a polycarbonate roof is pretty poor.
Robin L

 

Meanwhile...the WSR seems to be enjoying much focus in West Somerset, what with the Minehead Link group continually banging their drum and now the 1940s people looking to use the Railway for their special weekend in September. Good to know the WSR is indeed something that brings local folks together. Just what it was built for. A real bit of "heritage" methinks. Let's hope the WSR community can continue work positively with locals to make good things happen.

Steve