West Somerset Railway General Discussion

This is plain silly. You cannot have a "genuine" heritage atmosphere on a railway. There has to be selective blindness on the part of the viewer, or their illusion will be shattered every time a modern car comes into view or a jet flies overhead or a tractor is glimpsed in the fields beyond. The countryside round about is markedly different. If it is possible to "not notice" such things, it is perfectly possible to "not notice" a Castle on the head of the train instead of a prairie, for the length of time it takes for the train to traverse the viewer's viewpoint. As Monkey Magic points out, it is impossible to get everything right in the way that a film set would have to do, so once you have one anachronism, what does it matter if you have two? Ok, the odd "rivet counter" might be offended by the wrong sort of loco, but 99% of the paying public don't care, they just like the atmosphere. BTW, the introduction of the pneumatic tyre predated the demise of the smock as a rural work garment, so, while the rubber-tyred cart with the smocked driver may have looked wrong, it could actually have been historically correct.

 

I was aware of the past mineral traffic in connection with the sea defences. Not what I would classify as "goods" traffic but there we go. Does the present traffic in spent ballast originate from outside of the railway? I would have no problems at all in the entire traffic being "just" tourists which, forgive me, sounds a bit "off" but I am sure this was not your intention.

With thanks,

Paul H

 

I am afraid you are making excuses. Some compromises have to be made, e.g. gift shops, cafes, men's lavatories with roofs (there was a recent flapdoodle about this) are just a selection. As a consequence more care has to be taken about other things. I try not to use the word "heritage" more than I have to because it means very little.

PH

 

I fear you maybe right . I would visit the WSR for curiosity reasons to see Thornbury Castle but only the once but try and keep me away once 9351 is back in service .

 

9351 of course being a loco which is largely a post-preservation creation, being a type never constructed in the era it pretends to come from.

Tom

 

As a general principle that seems fine. The problem comes with personal opinions as to just how necessary any particular modern feature is and which "heritage" features are important. The lavatory roof? A warning sign on a crossing? A longer train? A loco big enough to pull the longer train? An even bigger loco that happens to be available?

Personally I'm quite happy with the big locos but I dislike the pastiche of ancient leather suitcases and milk churns on a platform. Others are entitled to the other opinions.

The WSR's Heritage Committee seems the right body to assess such questions.

 

So this weekend we have been enjoying the first WSR trains of my 39th year as a Railway volunteer, which started here on the WSR and has taken in some other locations along the way. Recent events have had me thinking.

These days I get asked to help Railways all over the country when things have gone wrong, in one way or another. I have four such matters 'on the go' as we speak.

It is very hard to get high-quality management either for free, or at the levels heritage Railways are willing to pay for employed individuals. But some wonderful folks do give their time or work for far less than they could earn elsewhere. Volunteer organisations pose some unique, or perhaps extreme, management challenges. But there are rubies in the saddlebag if you get it right, given the amazing folk who volunteer.

One area common to three of the four matters 'on my shelf' at the moment is that 'management' in the broadest sense, have lost touch with the fact of the need to maintain the connection with the whole diaspora of the amazing organisation that they are privileged to help and guide towards common aims. This can lead to a vicious circle of complaints from outside the magic circle and a 'bunker' mentality arising, which gets worse and worse until it can only be solved by cataclysm. A little humility is good for the soul and the organisation.

Here endeth 'railway thoughts on Sunday'. Goodnight.

Robin

 

There's not a huge difference between no.2 and no.4 boilers. How much else is different between 9351 and a 43xx?

 

The average paying customer sitting on the train is going to be bombarded with anachronisms as they look out of the window. Is it really going to make any difference if the locomotive at the head of the train is slightly larger than one that would have worked the line in days past? Since everyone agrees that film-set accuracy is not achievable, then the only criterion is what level of accuracy do you try achieve on a day-to day basis. You don't like main line engines on branch lines, but as anachronisms go, they are small beer compared to all the surroundings of the line and the intrusions of the modern world, so, to claim that they are the show-stopper is, as I said, just plain silly. You also have to distinguish between static and dynamic accuracy. The historical accuracy of a totally original station building will be ruined by having a modern car parked outside of it, but it will be back again as soon as that car leaves. For you, it will also be ruined when a Castle pulls in tender first with a train, but, importantly, it will, once again, be back once that locomotive is out of sight.

 

I'd visit the WSR lots of times to see and ride behind Thornbury Castle.

 

As I said before, you are making excuses, rather a lot of them.

PH

 

I've seen demonstration goods trains at every gala I've visited .

 

I agree 100% but it is capable of hauling most WSR trains with adequate water capacity .

 

Paul; in this long and winding thread, how many times have you raised this same subject, or variation thereof? And how many more times do you need to do so before you realise that, whether you think you're right or wrong is irrelevant, the rest of us disagree with you, always have and always will. If the issues you worry about truly worry you, write to the railways' general managers and alert them to the potential problems that only you foresee. Moaning about it here will have little effect, and just hacks people off. It comes to something when one of your posts querying a point can be answered by directing you to a post made last year quoting you lecturing on exactly the same subject.

 

For most visitors who decide to visit one of our wonderful steam railways it will most likily be the only time they actually travel by train, and if they do regularly use NR , you can bet their experience will be blandness, plastic, airline seats, compare this with even a MK1 4x4 seating, wooden fittings, there is not a lot of difference between an early MK1, and a late big 4 coach from inside, everything has to be a compromise, whilst the interior of the coach may take you back, outside, unless your lucky enough to pass through countryside thats hardly altered, the illusion is shattered as soon as you leave the station, your kid playing with their phone, complaining " theres no wifi" also tends to bring you back to its 2018 , not 1968 , see to many of our visitors they don't care whats at the head, unless of course its an green A3, but a large engine with a name will be more memorable to them, than an to them " little steam engine" its the experience of being in an old train, being hauled by a steam engine , there will of course be some exceptions, Someone who granddad may have gone to school by Steam train on the IOW, will of course have memories of the 02 and island coaches, just as i can remember traveling to guilddford by 2 bill or 4 cor.

 

Nooo don't start that one up as well! All we need to mention now is loos on the train and buffet carriages and we've got full house...

 

Or you are just avoiding answering the difficult questions that are posed to you.

I find it hilarious that you laud the DSR - which is currently using an ex-Chinese S160, ex-DMU trailers painted in Chocolate and Cream while complaining about a Castle on the WSR.

The erm logic and consistency of your position is quite something. Anyone would think you were making up bizarre arguments just to get people to respond to you.

I agree. Station furniture is a funny one because I tend to think that there are certain things people 'expect' to see at a preserved line station (even though they are not historically accurate), milk churns to re-enforce the rural vibe, some old adverts (especially some well known ones). The effect can be very twee. But I think we tend to notice the things we notice (or where we know something is historically jarring). Most of the time we are ignorant of historical incongruities so we don't notice that x would never have been seen with y.

I mean no one apart from someone completely demented would complain that the flowers in the station flower beds are all modern varieties and they never would have been seen in 1925 etc etc. That said, if someone does want to plant up a station flower bed, station master's garden etc in historically accurate plants based on the Sutton's catalogue of 1925 then good luck to them.

I don't have a problem with 'a station is a place for us to display historical artefacts we don't otherwise have space for' and I recognise that people like looking at 'old signs'. The alternative is to create a station from period X, but then as Bayard says, the vibe will be destroyed when a pre-1948 liveried loco on half a dozen mark ones rolls in, or a modern tractor, jet, car etc goes past. As with all things I guess they end up being historical approximations in order to carry out a double function of i) reflecting some of the past and giving people an experience (educational/emotional) and ii) getting the punters to cough up money and get on the trains.

 

There would be even less point to these posts if we only said what we thought people would like!

PH

 

Yes, but whenever you bring this subject up, do you truly believe it'll end any way other than the same way it did last time, and the time before that, and the time before that, and the time before that.......?

 

Martin. It's some time since I gave up generalising about passengers as they vary so much. A fair number seem to have no real idea as to why they are there! Some will
not have detailed knowledge of railways but have knowledge about clocks and watches or works of art with a railway theme. Don't assume that they only visit the odd line or two but the retired couple who spent the entire summer months visiting tourist railways in their motor caravan were exceptional. Other visitors have included an academic of world standing specialising in the Victorian way of life and Associate Editor of an august website based at an Ivy League university in Providence Rhode Island. So to talk about "visitors" as if they are some sort of universal amorphous group is not really very accurate.

Paul H

I only "laud" the DSR because it uses appropriate equipment for the job. It is a commercial organisation which does not waste money on "big chuffers". Whilst I don't care for the names splashed about on locos and carriages, it is clean and tidy. Dare it be said, rather more so than some. It is not the only place which utilises DMU trailers.

PH