Useful Tips for Carriage and Wagon Restorers

I would recommend one of these Axminster deadblow hammers. I have 2 one at home and one at the railway. They are good because they are heavy but still a bit rubbery. I use it with chisels all the time and it is also useful for any job where you need to give something a knock. There is 3 different weights of them.

https://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-deadblow-hammers-ax22790

 

being a touch cynical (and wanting to keep me nails undented) get someone else to do anything involving hammers and panel pins !
(also saves on turning the air blue, especially on a bad = clumsy day)

 

These are useful for panel pins.



Called a Push Pin. Load a pin into the magnetic tube. Place against work. Then push.

Very quick to work with but often just needs a final tap on the head with a punch.

They've been about since the 1960's.

 

One thing to do also with panel pins. If you are putting say the mouldings on, as they are only 3/8th thick they are quite prone to splitting and it is so annoying when it happens
So you should pre drill the holes to avoid this. If you try and use normal drills (say 1mm diameter) they break off all the time, so you can use one of your panels pins as a drill and just put a panel pin in the drill. It works well and it means the holes are the same size as the panel pins and the pin never breaks off.

 

On the bases of; "If in doubt put kettle on!"

 

I was doing this just yesterday, don't forget to snip the head of the pin off first.
I was using stainless steel panel pins for both the piloting and pinning. The drilling pin does go wonky after much use, so change it if you detect a slight wobble as you drill.
As long as the gauge of the pin is the same you can of course use a harder steel pin for piloting softer pins such as brass.

Sawdust.

 

Okay so I will give a few more tips I have picked up

1 New carriage floors. When I have had to replace part of mine I used 2 layers of birch plywood. (in place of the original slatted boards). However there is a much better solution which I didn't previously know existed. There is a material called Buffalo board which is intended for Lorry flatbeds. It is birch ply but faced with a wire mesh of resin on each face. I first saw it used on a restored wickham but I know the SVR use it on their GWR coach floors at least. You can even get it say 30mm thick so only one layer needed and the resin face protects it from damage.

it looks like this (just checked prices, it isn't cheap ouch)



2 Internal coach ceilings

We have put all new ceilings in the coach and were very fortunate to buy on ebay a job lot of flexi ply cheaply from a boat building company that had gone bankrupt. This material is really intended for aircraft construction (build your own Mosquito !), but is is good because unlike normal ply where each layer has the grain running at 90 degrees to the previous layer. In flexi ply the grain in each layer all runs the same way, so it can bend really tightly in one direction (ie across the grain), but not the other. This means it is ideal for curved ceilings where it has to fit around a tight bend. The ceilings in a coach corridor are even tighter often being a half circular shape around 2 feet wide so it is a really tight bend to force ply around, but with the flexi ply no problem.

At Swindon works they used to soak the ceiling plywood overnight in a water tank and then put it up wet so they could get it to bend around the curve for corridor ceilings.

 

I'm interested in using this for a coach floor (converted from a SR PMV.) Obviously, it is going to need quite a few joints. I'm a bit concerned about water (from floor cleaning, etc) getting into the joints and damage over time. Any suggestions for sealing these and any other advice, especially on fixing?

 

I think I would cut the boards as accurately as you can so there are no gaps in the first place. Then paint the edges before you fix it down with a few coats of black oil based paint.
Then screw it down, that way if you ever need to take it up to access something in future you can. If you wanted you could put some frame sealant along the edges of the boards, but probably not that necessary. In the case of for example the SVR, they would but a linoleum on the top of it.

 

Thanks for responding. My logic in using it was to avoid putting a linoleum type covering on the floor, though. I was thinking of more or less a final finish.

 

Any advice on learning signwriting?
I'd like to be able to signwrite wagons, so I thought I'd start by buying my own brush and paint and practicing at home.
I know the basics, having watched someone else doing it, I could just do with some advice on exactly what to buy.

Brushes; I don't know what the numbers mean other than higher numbers being bigger brushes. What number should I start with for, say, 2" lettering?
Paint; Has it got to be signwriting paint or will any white gloss do?
Tracing paper and chalk; It's all the same isn't it?

I painted my window frames at home with oil based gloss paint and a synthetic brush. Is there really any reason why I can't use the same combination when signwriting?

 

Can't help with brushes, I bought a couple that seem to work ok but I know nothing really! I just use normal white paint, but might go over it twice - undercoat has a better coverage though so sometimes I do a coat of undercoat then gloss. I expect you're right about tracing paper and chalk, I use baking paper so I can have a piece as long as I like, and an ancient bag or powdered chalk from a shed.

 

That's exactly how I started - Black sugar paper taped to a wardrobe door & gouache or acrylic white.

I'd also recommend getting a cheap calligraphy set & learning the basic hands like Copperplate, Chancery Italic, Uncial & Black Letter (Gothic). This teaches you the order of strokes* and also the effect of varying the pen angle — after that it's 'just' a matter of making the brush do the same.

*e.g. an M is up down up down, or light heavy light heavy - swap them around & it'll look dreadful.

One thing you can't really be taught is how to space letters. The books go on about whole, half & three-quarter letters, but I've always found that to be nonsense.
Better IMO is the underlying shape of a letter – an A is triangular, so are L, T & V; H, I, & U are square; D is half & half square/round
Look at the area between adjacent letters & make that as equal as possible. An example:—

VENTILATED. The L & A set the limit as they're both triangular & cannot get any closer together. Try & space the rest using the L-A as a baseline. Not always possible, but it's the target.

2" block - No. 4 chisel, for script or Roman a No. 4 Point will help with the serifs.
A basic set would be No 2, 4 & 6 in both chisel & point. that'll cover most eventualities up to 4-6".

You'll also find quills listed instead of numbers. Some rough equivalents:—

0 — Lark
1 — Crow
2 — Small Duck
4 — Large Duck
6 — Goose
9 — Small Swan
12 — Small Condor

The largest I've ever found need for is a pair of 9s, & they see little use today - a 6 will do.

For white, yes - try using undercoat with some topcoat to slick it up. For other colours, 'One Shot' enamels are very good.

Broadly - the only thing I've found that failed to take chalk was thermal fax paper.
75-90gsm photocopier paper works just as well as tracing paper. If you have a printer with a roll feeder then you can print out 'pounces' pre-spaced & with no joins.

Not really, but in my experience a good Sable brush holds more paint than any of the synthetics, which allows for a longer stroke between refills.

Sources:

A.S. Handover - https://www.handover.co.uk/
Wrights of Lymm - https://www.stonehouses.co.uk/

Pete S.,
C&W Dept.,
GWS Didcot.

 

I think here you are referring back to Buffalo Boarding which is a trade name for Phenolic boarding. It is the same stuff that you get on platforms for scaffold towers, albeit perhaps of a different thickness.

If you Google as to how to protect cut edges of Phenolic boards, then many results will take you to Marine/Boat forums. Who better to advise as to such?

 

Thanks for the advice. Having tried a couple of offcuts, I'm less worried about the joints. The pieces I had could be put together with hardly any sign of a joint.

 

In the past I've used some chalk impregnated paper, used by tailors for marking out. Don't know who supplied it, other than pinched from my wife's sewing kit. I printed out the letters on the printer or simply drew them and put the chalked paper underneath and simply went over the letter outline with a pencil. that worked well. I've also taken a printed letter and used the point of a compass to prick out the outline and use powdered chalk to transfer the outline to the loco. (did try using the sowing machine to prick out the outline but I'm no tailor!
As for using ordinary gloss paints, I usually find gloss on gloss isn't very good so, if not using signwriting paint, an undercoat is best used first.
Only other thing not mentioned so far is to use a mahl stick. If you don't know what it is, Google it.

 

Thanks for the signwriting advice, I think I know enough to have a go now.
Yes, I did know what a mahl stick is, I just didn't know that was what it was called.
I didn't know what pounces were though. The way I've seen it done is to draw the characters on tracing paper with pencil, then rub chalk on the back of the paper. Tape the paper in place, then redraw the pencil lines, which presses a thin line of chalk on to the surface. Having now watched a YouTube video on the subject, using a pounce wheel and dusting the charcoal or chalk on through the holes from outside looks a better way of doing it.

 

When signwriting, if there is anything more than a couple of days drying time for the surface, I'll usually go over it lightly with very fine scotchbrite or similar. Just enough to give a "key" - taking special care at the edges. Gloss to gloss doesn't always adhere as well as gloss to undercoat, thus if the paint under the lettering is a dark shade, like the grey on the Bowes waggon, either more coats or decent amount of undercoat would be needed.

 

No personal experience but a colleague recommended standing back after chalking up the lettering, and before you start painting the letter. Would have avoided a railway vehicle nearly becoming a "PLATLAYERS VAN", as the "L" and first "E" had the same basic shape. Luckily someone spotted it before he'd painted the T, but the final letters had to get a bit squashed to fit in.

 

The letter I find hardest is the "S" ... looking at "repainted" lettering can produce some wry smiles at times.
Yep, after a similar "near miss" - I always walk away to look at the draft marking out - and get someone else to double check the spacing ...
When you get a good result, that makes all the practice and head-scratching worthwhile, take the "G" in this ...

BR DB - Signwriting..... par StoneRoad2013, on ipernity