All diesel traction gone by 2040 ?

With the inexorable elimination of diesel, preceded by the complete demise of 1st generation diesels, I wonder if we'll see a BR Blue-themed line in preservation focussing on the 1970s-80s.

 

You not been to the Mid Norfolk then? That's what they do now, and very successfuly

 

I think some 1st gen diesels will probably be with us for some time to come - for RA5 routes there is virtually zero chance of a new class of diesels being built, so it's going to be life extensions of some kind or other for 37s or 73s from now to infinity if only to haul civil engineering trains.

Given the will, I'd imagine a 37 can probably be made to last forever - it's not like trying to maintain more modern stuff once it's out of production.

 

Isn't that the Tories? Ooops1111

 

Interesting information, especially that it's successful. Thank you. I can see the appeal that a BR Blue diesel hauling a blue and grey Mark II set might have for the post-steam generation.

 

Although they don't have much of a fleet at the mo!

 

Political promises . . . for 22 years in the future . . .

"And I pledge that - if elected - by 2098, electricity will be provided, free of charge, to every home and business in Britain!"

(and when the government fail to deliver, you can sue my corpse . . . )

 

I don't see why - while the Voyager bi-mode needed a large transformer and pantograph to operate under the wires, from what I gather the 159 bi-mode would be 3rd rail only.

As for phasing out diesel-only trains, that seems pretty sensible to me - at the very least diesel bi-modes would make the most of existing electrification, especially through urban areas and stations like Birmingham New Street that suffer from poor air quality.

 

But there's the transmission issue as 159s are hydraulic transmission so unless you replace transmission to electric, bi-mode would be awkward with them.

 

I think that's the plan, effectively turning them into DEMUs with traction motors that can also be powered from the 3rd rail - here's what the SWR franchise agreement says (page 358):

Feasibility study into potential bi-mode conversion of Class 158 and 159s

The Franchisee shall, within six(6) months of the Start Date, incur expenditure of [REDACTED] in commissioning and/or procuring the undertaking of a study, in partnership with Porterbrook, in relation to the feasibility of converting the Class 158 and Class 159 rolling stock vehicles comprised in the Train Fleet:

(a) from diesel-hydraulic DMUs to diesel-electric DMUs; and thereafter
(b) from diesel-electric DMUs to third rail bi-mode units, (the “Conversion Concept”) and once completed shall promptly present the written findings of such study (the “Feasibility Study Report”) to the Secretary of State.

If the Feasibility Study Report demonstrates to the reasonable satisfaction of the Secretary of State that the Conversion Concept is both technically and financially viable and the Secretary of State notifies the Franchisee of this, the Franchisee shall promptly thereafter:

(a) incur expenditure of [REDACTED]; and
(b) procure any required additional investment from Porterbrook, in order to deliver a single vehicle trial to further test and demonstrate the practical feasibility of the Conversion Concept. The Franchisee shall provide the Secretary of State with a written report detailing the outcomes and recommendations of such single vehicle trial.
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Six months would suggest we'll soon find out if this idea has any legs?

 

Ah, 'feasibility study'....

 

Given both the work involved and the age of the trains coupled with the time it takes them to work passengers at stations, I suggest an 'unfeasibility' study might be a better title

 

Shades of the modernisation plan here....."undue haste"! IMO better not to waste money messing around with 159's and just let the current diesel stock naturally reach the end of their working lives. Better to plough the investment into either ensuring new stock is bi-mode or further electrification schemes.

Sent from my HTC Desire 620 using Tapatalk

 

Yes . . . I bracket that one together with the politicians other favourite 'Get Out of Jail Card';

"We are looking to (this, that and the other) ", which cons many trusting souls into believing it means they are actually going to take some sort of action, when in fact it's just a latter day equivalent of Peter Sellers' 'Party Political Speech', recorded in the 1950s. It's a solid four minutes in a classic example of what Shakespeare described as:

" . . . a tale told by an idiot; full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

Sellers made such a masterpiece of it that, at the end of the speech, you don't even know which party he belongs to!


(and what the hell does the verb 'looking to' mean, anyway? Sweet Fanny Adams!)

 

One factor in all this is, (boldly) assuming it's anything more than so much journo-political hot air......

Let's for a moment say it happens ..... consider. Coal is dug out of the ground and wood grows from the ground (No sh*t, Sherlock!), neither actually needs that much by way of processing and anyways, our beloved old steamers can boil water fuelled by old boots (well, you get what I mean...), whereas diesel fuel - fossil or bio sourced - is the product of complex industrial refinement. The upshot of this would be that, even with any possible derogations for "heritage" use of historic diesel locos, if commercial refining were to be stopped, there wouldn't actually be any means of fuelling them.

As an aside, my late grandmother, a nurse during the time encompassed by WW's I&II, informed me that it was well known in health circles that allergy related problems, suppression of the autoimmune system and pulmonary health issues (especially asthma) were specifically associated with diesel combustion before WWII. (Yes ... coal burning has it's share of health issues too). The asscociation with carcenogens was strongly suspected, though unproven at that time. Just like today .... and just as it always was .... it's the economic equivalent of "Smith and Wesson beats four aces".

To all posters cynical enough to unpick phrases containing words such as "aspiration" or "looking to" or questioning whether hybrids can be not classified as diesels ...... from my own experience, I strongly suspect you're on to something!

cynic [adj]: (1) One who, on catching the scent of flowers, looks about for a funeral : (2) One who may, periodically, become downheartened, but is seldom actually disappointed : (3) A realist : (4) Scores 12 in Scrabble

 

Heritage diesels will almost certainly run on plenty of oils other than diesel - it's fairly easy to produce a decent grade diesels substitute from cooking oil for instance and that's unlikely to become unavailable any time soon.
Just imagine a 37 that smells like the world's biggest burger van...

 

Or fish and chips

 

And steamers could run off alcohol or 'green' wood chips (as used by the power stations )

It's no more fantastic than the average drivel spouted by politicians .

 

Mmmm, yummy.

 

Hungry people following the scent discover their local heritage railway. I'm for it.