The Mayflower 17th June 2017: Now 15/04/18

I was considering this, partly for the very rare chance to board a steam-hauled train at Willesden Junction. But then that boarding point disappeared, and then the tour appeared to be fully booked. Now there are places available, presumably as a result of some people being unable to make the latest date.

 

Is Mayflower really expected to be ready as early as April? If I were a betting man I would add a couple of months I think.

 

Mayflower was ruled out a while ago, a Black 5 is substituting.

 

Another gauging farce, now diesel-hauled, just received this from organisers:

Confirmed timings now available for The Mayflower but sad news regarding our locomotive.
A week ago I was informed by West Coast Railway that Network Rail had not been able to carry-out the gauging checks required to authorise the use of the LMS Black 5 which I had arranged as the steam locomotive to haul our special train on April 15th.

Network Rail insist that details of the proposed steam train are submitted to them at least 12 weeks before the tour is due to run. This was done and you will recall it was a short time after this when we were informed that the original locomotive (61306 Mayflower) could not be used as gauging checks showed she was prohibited from passing through Woodbridge.

After eventually being able to find an alternative locomotive that was available for The Mayflower, WCR informed Network Rail we would now be using a Black 5. However, because we are now well within the twelve week deadline, Network Rail have not had the time to carry out gauging checks.

Unfortunately, this means that our train will now be hauled by a vintage diesel locomotive from the WCR fleet - possibly a 58 year old Class 33 or a Class 37 or Class 47.

I am sure many of you will share my disappointment at this final turn of events to hamper the running of The Mayflower. After nearly two and a half years of planning, I am deeply frustrated at not being able to provide the exact experience I offered.

But I sincerely believe this wonderful train of beautiful preserved carriages, hauled by vintage classic British Railway's traction visiting some very unusual and hard to reach corners of the railway network, will provide a most enjoyable day trip and all for a very wonderful cause.

Here are the confirmed timings for The Mayflower:

Highbury & Islington 0914 / 0917
Stratford 0930 / 0945
Colchester 1100 / 1102
Sizewell 1245 / 1300
Saxmundham 1339 / 1353
Griffin Wharf 1510 / 1535
Harwich Town 1625 / 1830
Liverpool Street 2036 / 2122
Highbury & Islington 2135

Please note the earlier departure time from Harwich Town and do please ensure you have booked a table at one of the pubs or restaurants in Harwich if you would like a hot meal.

 

Too true Al, not like when it was Flying Scotsman which wasn't guaged for the Scottish bridges, and it was all magically sorted in a day or so, but then SD are very media savvy and knew how to put pressure on NR.

Really got to feel for the guy who runs Charity Railtours, over 2 years in the planning and now this..

 

Not really sure the Scottish FS debacle was anything to do about SD being especially media savvy it was more about the negative effect on all concerned about it not happening, bearing in mind all the hype that seems to surround that loco.

Regardless of that shame for all those booked although I have heard NR are currently very seriously stretched with gauging issues for the day to day operation, let alone "extras".

 

The attraction of this trip was the routes as well as the traction, and it would have been top-and-tailed anyway. All the same, it's a major disappointment.
There's something wrong with the system when NR says "Sorry, loco out of gauge" and then, when offered a different loco, says "Sorry, three weeks' notice is too short for us to check this one". There have been mutterings of late that NR really is in favour of steam on the main line, but where there's a will there's a way, and it seems the will is lacking after all.

 

Network Rail are the end - typical jobsworths making rules for their own convenience, and treating the customer with contempt. "I work for the government, I'm OK and I don't care" - remember the 'good old days' of the 70s? Privatisation, but with accountability, may not be such a bad idea.

 

Without knowing very much at all of what the process is, mightit be possible for a plan B loco to be additionally within the initial application to mitigate the possibility first choice loco does not fit or proves unavailable? As I say, I don't know whether that is a remotely feasible contingency measure to cope with NRs apparent deficiencies.

 

If this was a DB gig, it would be a non issue !

 

I would not claim to have any knowledge of how NR undertake their gauging, but based on the way "emergency engineering works" appear at virtually no notice (most recently Chester to Manchester) which are actually down to their own engineering overruns I would be surprised if the Belmond trip was gauged quickly due to any impact NR may have had elsewhere with either planned or unplanned work. If they are prepared to tell the main TOC's lines are shut so run buses I would suggest a charter, even if it is in a regular NR path would be well down the pecking order for some sort of special treatment.
No idea if they already held some or all the data for a Merchant Navy around Kent, but less likely they have Black 5 data for Anglia I would suspect.
What confuses me was that I thought it had been reported that a Black 5 fitted within the profile of a Class 47 (may be miles off beam there of course) so if so why is it such an issue?
Whilst the plan B sounds a good idea it would generate a shed load of potentially wasted work if loco B does not get used and if resources are already stretched it will just delay things further I would suggest.

Of course if NR is in anyway like the company where I worked, something like 12 weeks notice is only mandatory until someone higher up the food chain tells you to ignore it and JFDI

 

Like you, I have no knowledge how NR manages gauge acceptance but when a route is remeasured the critical zones must be the most restricted ones, dimensionally. Once that has been determined it does not seem like a difficult algorithm to compare the vehicle database with minimum route clearance. It is after all only the route which changes, not the loco dimensions which will be static during certification periods I presume. I further assume each steam loco is individually measured irrespective of whether there are other locos registered of notionally same class ie all black fives will have a unique physically determined profile whereas Class 47 fit might be generic?

 

When the Special Train Request is sent to NetRail 12>14 weeks in advance, the TOC can request up to 4 locos be gauged. Given that there is more often than not a Black 5 available, wouldn't it be prudent to always put one as an option?

I understand that NetRail have never been asked to gauge an alternative steam locomotive, it being 61306 or bust, and that they even went the extra mile and resolved the gauging issue at Woodbridge so that Mayflower could run.

I'll be the first to blame NetRail when it is due, but it doesn't look like its NetRail this time.

 

Thanks for the clarification, sounds like you are fully conversant with the system!
That said, it is far from a given a black 5 will always be available because they are generally in demand and booked out well in advance during the peak season.

 

Well, that is a shame, and confirms my suspicions that there was no fallback if 'Mayflower' fell by the wayside. Whilst the route itself is still good, I can't see myself enjoying it much with 100% diesel traction- I still have memories of being bored out of my skull on the Buxton Spa in September 2016, when 45690's paperwork was filed too late. The moral problem is that its for charity, so if I do go for the refund option, I'll request that a proportion of the ticket price be kept as a donation for Macmillan. That said, I still feel sorry for the organiser, though.

 

The way it’s worded their is no chance of a refund (unless Dennis can resell the tickets, doubtful now 50% of the tours appeal has gone) and for somebody whose had four tickets booked since the first date was scheduled; I’m not exactly overly happy to have received today’s update...
As I understand it the B1 has been effectively gauged for the route, so it seems a classic case of the computer says “No” as surely the kinetic envelope of a Black 5 is less than that of a B1?
Or is my theory too simple!

 

Indeed. Having now had a glass of port, I think in the end it might be a case of grit teeth and take a good book.

 

Is the B1 simply not available now rather than out of gauge, which was the original reason the Black 5 was substituted? Unless I misunderstood - quite possible!