Current and Proposed New-Builds

Aha, so that is the explanation for how the russians were the first in space travel, their "space -ship":https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Грузовой_паровоз_Л_2298_(3).jpg

Knut

 

The G&SWR also had a serious maintenance back log and Whitelegg had indulged in some very dubious rebuilding.

There was a large slaughter of L&Y types considering the quality of the designs and the standardisation.

 

There's a photo somewhere of a Dreadnought at York in BR lined black. No other LMS pregroup 4-6-0 survived nearly as long. A lot was very ancient and life expired, sadly the Baltic tanks were a silly idea all round, in fact most Dreadnoughts needed a bigger 8 wheeled tender, such was their need for the black stuff. The later standard stuff lingered long,, but was getting life expired. Think how worn out the Crabs were.

 

On the other hand the heavy 8-coupled freight engines were wiped out very quickly (considering their age and size), and replaced with the truly awful Fowler 7F's. I wonder what the crews though of that deal!

The Dreadnaughts I think had the potential to be really good engines, apparently a few were modified with better piston rings very late in life and that's why a handful made it through WW2.

But an L&YR new build would have to be an Aspinall Atlantic, preferably with superheater and piston valves. They were the first UK loco to have any kind of superheater and thus were a milestone. It would be on my list if I won Euromillions, but of course it would depend on what drawings survive.

 

That was the last run of the class with 50455 from Blackpool to York.

The engines were heavy on reasons: the by-pass valves in the piston valves leaked badly and allowed live steam into the exhaust passages unused; and they had the wide Schmidt valve ring, along with many other types. This had the same effect as the by-pass valves. Modifying the engines to eliminate cheap, and brought their coal consumption down to a level of other engines of their age.


They were good and strong engine and served the L&YR and Central Division well. They were not designed for and were not at home on the WCML, where LNWR Claughtons were a better option.

 

1008 is a great survivor. Of the 100+ taken into BR service, all but about 5 are Victorian, and they were replaced by DMUs. Some of the 0-6-0s were some of the last pregroupers to go. Sadly all the Atlantics disappeared very early and unappreciated. 1008 to steam again? Doubtful!
After rebuilding the Dreadnoughts were perhaps the best the LMS had, (embarrassing the Unrebuilt Royal Scots, which were very poor engines) until Stanier arrived. Popular with crews, and 8 making BR days, life expired.

 

You could smuggle dissidents under that boiler!

 

A handful of the L and Y 0-8-0s s made it to BR, but not for long, and they were replaced quickly by the Fowler 7Fs, in turn quickly by WD 2-8-0s, seems like the Lanky got the stuff the rest of the LMR didn’t want!

I would love to see 1008 steam again too, as said, they lasted long enough to be replaced directly by Metro Cammell DMUs in some areas

 

Really? On what do you base that?

 

Exactly. Where does he base that? I'd personally like to see an Unrebuilt Scot.

 

Sorry, I think quite a bit of what you've said in your last few posts isn't right at all.
The LMS 7F 0-8-0s were not "truly awful", they were pretty good in terms of boiler, steaming, valve gear, etc. and let down by bad axleboxes. They did their job for several decades. On the Central division (ex-L&Y) many folks preferred them to a Stanier 2-8-0 for a hard slog over the summits (or so say Essery & Jenkinson, anyway).
The original Scots were a good engine, well up to their operational demands, and which delivered what was required. Their weaknesses were valve rings (quickly fixed), axleboxes (fixed too) and smokeboxes. The latter was fixed with a new boiler which also transformed them from good to superb.

 

I may have missed it elsewhere, but I'll post it here, The ex Jersey eastern railcar power unit 'Dom' (Formerly Brittany)was sold by the KESR, IN GOOD FAITH to Quainton Road.At the time it had very 'non standard Garden Shed' type bodywork and NO boiler, some fittings may have been used on 'Gervase' However Quainton Road only wanted the engine for another Loco. The remainder was 'Weighed In' at a scrapyard fairly local to Quainton, certainly nearer than Rolvendon, I recieved this information from the owner of the recipient Locomotive in the early 1980's and the events would have been about 10 years ealier, so around 40-45 years ago.

 

Like the above posts, I think the LMS Patriot Group, after finishing their Fowler 2-6-4T in the future, should go after either a 7F 0-8-0 or a original unrebuilt Royal Scot.

 

A 7F would be of limited use and no real appeal when it came to raising funds, an original Scot would be much better

 

Fowler 2-6-4t even better, or how about a flatiron 0-6-4t?

 

If thinking only 'mainline' I'd agree about usefulness. As a 25mph heritage line 'plodder', surely the 7F (for all it's known shortcomings) would be well suited?

An original Scot probably would be the better prospect as a headline grabber .... but ..... am I the only one who finds it odd to propose a very hefty spend on a design which only achieved it's full potential after rebuilding?

We've still got the 5'-3" gauge version of the 2-6-4T and there may even be a second example on the way.

The 'flatirons' were a pretty common sight in lots of places, but weren't they regarded as unimpressive in their day? Might the flawed Stanier class 3 2-6-2T design be worth a second look? If the design problems (thinking 'front end' here) proved sortable, it would produce a very useful branch line loco. It's Fowler predecessor seems to have been too underboilered / over-shod, as well as doubtless coming with "those axleboxes".

TBH, I'd place any number of pre-grouping designs ahead of any 'missing' LMS class. What with the Lizzies, Big Lizzies, Jubes, rebuilt Scots, 8F's and Black 5's, Sir William is nearly as over-represented as OVSB in preservation terms!

 

As far as I remember, the front-end of the Stanier class 3 2-6-2T was OK, it was a case of them being under-boilered like their predecessors, the Breadvans.
The Flatirons were prone to derailment due to hunting, and were not popular.

I've always thought that one of the nicest locos on the Midland was the Johnson 0-4-0 saddle tank, produced in numerous batches over the years. Obviously not suitable for passenger haulage, but I like them nevertheless!

Richard.

 

Think it’s been mentioned before, but how about a Claughton? The boiler on the rebuilt version was the same as the Patriot.

 

Were they really much improved by rebuilding, and if so what made the difference?

 

With some improvements to the front end, a large-boilered Claughton would presumably be about as powerful as a Patriot, which in turn should be about as powerful as a Jubilee, one of which has been doing some great stuff on the main line recently. All the same, if I live long enough (which is unlikely) I'd prefer to see the original small-boilered version brought back to life, as to may taste it looks much more handsome.