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Current and Proposed New-Builds

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by aron33, Aug 15, 2017.

  1. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Nat Pres stalwart

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    And - if you're looking at the theme park I think you're looking at - that's an online price. Turn up on the day and it's £55 per adult.

    Coincidentally, the same price for a one-day family ticket for the Nene Valley Railway diesel gala this weekend.
     
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  2. JayDee

    JayDee Member

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    Against who, exactly? If we're looking at this in terms of the heritage and tourist market, railways are able to offer several unique selling points rarely replicated elsewhere inside the wider tourist market.

    It offers a form of transportation, often giving a different viewpoint or access to areas that are inconvenient by conventional means. Including access to more interesting "jumping off points" for hikers and bikers, or even access to other attractions in and of themselves.

    They offer slices of unique history along the route of its length provided the stations are given something "unique" in personality terms for them. Stations can be themed to the original railway company, or show stations at different points in time throughout the line's history.

    They are living history museums which, certainly in the UK, only have one or two pieces of competition within the same sort of realm. (Warwick Castle, Ironbridge Gorge, Black Country and Beamish leap to mind, all of whom bar Warwick have some sort of small demonstration railway or rail-based ride in them).

    Thanks to various branded events their appeal to families can be assured, especially as the Thomas Brand seems to be holding quite steady, even in the age of video games and other forms of entertainment. Never mind various other excellent family friendly events like Santa Trains and Easter Family weekends.

    On top of that, market tolerance for putting a kettle on the front means you can easily charge a 50% markup compared to what you'd "really" charge for such a journey, and can be suitably punished despite the rebranding into "Heritage railways" by ticket receipts dropping by 40% or more when you put a diesel on it.

    EDIT: Never mind Fine Railway Dining, a unique experience to say the least!

    Interpretation, largely thanks to things like the Heritage Lottery Fund have also helped in this area enormously, with other railways also seeing the value of having and proposing such spaces without necessarily needing to ask for that funding all the time.

    The only lines I can see really struggling to grasp this are ones which go from nowhere to nowhere, and never will due to various factors, or get snarled up in stupid distractions. Even then, those lines are only "doomed" so far as current management practises run on.

    Charging certainly doesn't seem to be a problem at all, as it operates by simple market tolerance and obviously has enough USP's to justify it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
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  3. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    What has a theme park really got to do with this!?! The price of a theme park will never be relevant to the price of a heritage railway. It's teenagers upwards who predominantly attend these, and that sort of person is not what a heritage railway is fighting for. It's young families, dining experience, driver experience, grandparents + Gkids, elderly people, coach tours etc that is the main market for a heritage line. You need to look at the prices for Zoo's, national trusts, etc etc to price compare.

    Going back to funding for new builds, you are right in say that maybe funding will be fine in the future to do these, but I personally feel that most of the funding for the project I'm involved in is coming from railway enthusiasts of 60 yrs plus who remember them in their working years. So I for one will be continuing to push as hard as I can to get the money in now rather than waiting for tomorrow. Whether you like the Patriot or not, your opinion is fine either way, and there are many arguments that it's not powerful enough for the mainline etc, and over powered for a preserved line, there is one thing you can't knock us for as a team, and that's being able to get people to donate large sums of money and regularly. I really hope that the Fowler tank project also manages to continue to get good funding as that would be a very useful machine to a lot of railways on the preserved scene.
     
  4. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Most customers are not enthusiasts and the enthusiast ought not to assume they share the same interests and priorities.

    PH
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 3, 2018
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  5. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    Easter hols. To book now to take the memsahib and six kids to:
    LEGOLAND tomorrow is £50 petrol, £416.00 park entry, plus another what, £100 for food and drinks=£566.00
    HMS Victory tomorrow is £50 petrol, £87.50 entry, plus another £100 for food and drinks=£237.50
    West Somerset Railway, £50 petrol, £80.10 rover tickets, plus the £100 for food and drinks=£230.10
    Glos Warks Railway, £50 petrol, £80.00 rover tickets, plus £100 etc=£230.00
    Avon Valley Adventure park, £15 petrol, £98.50 park entry, probably £60.00 food drinks etc=£173.50
    We the Curious, @bristol, £20 petrol, £10 parking, £86.20 entry, plus £60 food drinks etc=£176.20
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
  6. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I've said it before and I'll continue to say that big wheels are not a handicap for running at slow speed. Every loco has to start from rest so must be able to run at slow speed. Tractive effort is also a maximum at low rotational speed. The only advantage of small wheels is that they generally mean other bits, such as cylinders, can be smaller and inertia is less for a given drawbar pull. 60007 may be overkill running on the NYMR but it's 6'-8" driving wheels are no disadvantage in doing so.
     
  7. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Wishful thinking?

    PH
     
  8. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I'm afraid that you've got that one wrong, Gav. Theme parks are very much the competition of many heritage railways offering a day out. The NYMR certainly considers that to be the case. it doesn't consider the likes of the KWVR or even the Wensleydale to be the competition. It is what the alternative family days out are and that is the likes of Flamingoland and Lightwater Valley and it against them that fares are compared and considered.
     
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  9. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    No. Fact. Prove me wrong.
     
  10. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Prove me wrong! It's only a matter of opinion..

    PH
     
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  11. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Just consider every large wheeled steam loco produced and question its ability to run at slow speed. Q.E.D.
     
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  12. JayDee

    JayDee Member

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    I agree with you on that utterly (Indeed, as I said earlier, most folks aren't bothered about the engine so long as it chuffs) but I was pointing out the numerous USPs that a lot of heritage lines have, or can exploit and how this does narrow down what you'd immediately term as "competition" to a slightly more niche competition.

    ========

    Someone correct me on this one, but haven't numerous locomotives been seen to struggle on a number of heritage lines due to big wheels and steep grades?

    In fact, even the recent "All aboard the Yorkshire Express" has the driver remarking on how the Royal Scot is akin to holding back a race horse due to speed limits, or words to this effect.
     
  13. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    ?
    PH
     
  14. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    You're obviously out of your depth on this, Paul.
     
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  15. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    That would make two of us then
     
  16. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    If you think so. I'll let others be the judge of that, though.
     
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  17. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Flamingoland is £34 per adult and a family of four ticket is £109. NYMR is £29 and £60 respectively. So Mr. Hitch, looks like the Moors is taking on the opposition with some realistic fares.
     
  18. Copper-capped

    Copper-capped Part of the furniture

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    This forum really needs a dedicated thread about how to teach heritage railways et. al. to suck eggs. Perhaps it might alleviate the need for contributors to periodically waste their time with the use of logical explanations. :rolleyes:
     
  19. Smokestack Lightning

    Smokestack Lightning Member

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    That hardly suggests that Royal Scot is in some way struggling due to larger wheels.

    Dave
     
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  20. LesterBrown

    LesterBrown Member

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    Banbury shed regularly used 6'8" wheeled Atbaras on coal trains from 1924 to 1927 and others of the same class were used for goods work in the late 20s.
     

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