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Ebor Flyer - A1ST and Tornado: 14/04/18

Discuție în 'What's Going On' creată de NathanP, 15 Sep 2017.

  1. Scrat

    Scrat New Member

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    Unfortunately you may be correct in what you predict....
    Inside valve gear being completely ripped out from under the loco is a very serious failure, and one that the authorities will be taking a great interest in.
    The parts lying in the four foot are quite clearly the bottom of the sheared combination lever, union link and the drop link having been broken off the crosshead. Something was seriously a miss for this to have happened.
    Not a good day for steam.
     
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  2. andalfi1

    andalfi1 Well-Known Member

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    If you check the video, you will see it is not on the adjacent, it occupies the same four foot as the train, good to see the fastenings are still complete as well.
     
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  3. thickmike

    thickmike Member

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    Apologies - I think you are correct and that is helpful in itself as the shed part (were there others we haven’t seen?) has stayed within the trains envelope. Do not see where the comment about the entire motion coming down comes from unless the poster has inside (no pun intended) knowledge. Inside valve fear being completely ripped out appears to me to be an inflammatory and comment without base?
     
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  4. steamvideosnet

    steamvideosnet Well-Known Member

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    My video from Biggleswade... moments before Tornado came to a stand.

    James
     
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  5. andalfi1

    andalfi1 Well-Known Member

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    Well, he is clearly correct in his identification of the failed components and I could not add more to his description of the clues to the failure.
     
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  6. and60007

    and60007 Member

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    Nice footage James there let's hope she returns to the mainline soon? Kind regards Andrew
     
  7. thickmike

    thickmike Member

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    Just a quick question and then I’m out of here as Herr Toni suggests. Please name all the parts of the inside valve gear and identify where they have been ripped off. I’ve seen a picture of one item which might or might not be the expansion link (part of) or the Union link. The rest??

    Since we’re running into the Cross this seems a good time to say thank you to the A1 ST and the rest of the crew for as good a trip as possible.
     
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  8. Swiss Toni

    Swiss Toni Well-Known Member

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    My post wasn't directed at you Mike, it was aimed at the bo****ks coming from Brighton!
     
    Last edited: 14 Apr 2018
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  9. andalfi1

    andalfi1 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I assumed you had read #342, you may as well go there...
     
  10. twr12

    twr12 Well-Known Member

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    TWR12 Theory time

    Perhaps the middle valve seized and the combination lever broke as the weakest link
     
  11. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    Mods note . Whilst we have different interpretations of todays events can we keep comments civil and avoid unnecessary name calling . Two posts removed for this reason
     
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  12. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    A very sad day.

    The parts in the 4 foot appear to me to be part of the drop link off the crosshead (note part of), the union link, and the bottom section of the combination lever - another 'part of'.

    In a piston valve loco there is not a great deal of strain on the combination lever with Walschaerts valve gear, and any strain is concentrated around the top end of the combination lever. The leverage action of the combination lever ought not to produce a break where it appears to have occurred, judging by the parts in the 4 ft. The footage of Tornado at the platform shows that the remainder of the combination lever is intact.

    However, the bottom end of the combination lever is more vulnerable (due to the leverage effect) if something has caused the top half not to move as it should, or sieze up.

    Just my twopennyworth.

    Cheers,

    Julian
     
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  13. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

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    Here's a better request to the mods. Can we lock this thread down as no one knows what happened and pages and pages of pointless speculation is just that. We've some gone from hitting something on the track to having most of the centre valve gear ripped out and no doubt there will be some even more unlikely theories aired.

    Any machinery with moving parts will occasionally have some of those parts fail and something failed today, excrement happens! We've all and our cars breakdown and in the days when I used to regularly travel by train I've been on a few that have come to shuddering halt. Tornado gave a good demonstration of what it is capable of today so just let the A1 Trust get on with the job of getting it back in service. We will all find out what really happened when they have investigated it.
     
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  14. twr12

    twr12 Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm.

    The don’t be rude about Tornado brigade out in force this evening
     
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  15. thickmike

    thickmike Member

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    Hi Toni, didn’t take it that way and suspect our views are not far apart. It’s been a long, mostly 75 mph day with a pleasant walk around York. Sadly, like many others, that wasn’t what I signed up for, nor paid for SWMBO and I to dine together. Hope some sanity returns and thanks to the mods for adding a little control when obviously necessary. I’m concerned at how long the facts may take to emerge - and I mean why it happened as well as what happened. Mike
     
  16. Swiss Toni

    Swiss Toni Well-Known Member

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    My request was removed so I wish you luck John, I personally get very tired of the doom and gloom prospects for steam on the mainline from a handful of so called "enthusiasts".
    As has happened before this thread will doubtless get out of hand and serve no purpose what so ever other than making NP a laughing stock.
     
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  17. Swiss Toni

    Swiss Toni Well-Known Member

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    Don't be ridiculous.
     
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  18. dan.lank

    dan.lank Member

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    I noticed that the original mentions of the incident said that Tornado had hit something which had caused the damage. I was a bit dubious whether that would cause damage where it did, but did I miss something? Guessing the collision theory has pretty much been ruled out now?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  19. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Here is a reflective thought about the day.

    The reason that we had the trip was because Tornado was passed for running up to 90 mph on designated parts of the ECML. The reason that Tornado needed to be approved for 90 mph running was because we were told that there are fewer steam paths on the network. The A1ST has been at pains to say that with the flexibility of a higher speed it would be easier to path steam charters and Tornado in particular would gain from that. So far so good.

    Did anyone notice that the Class 66 kept time up to York and, more to the point, kept time on the return and wasn't looped? Am I mistaken in thinking that a Class 66 is limited to 75 mph? So what was to stop Tornado running in that path today without any special high speed approval - i.e. just as normal with perhaps the odd moment when we got close to 80?

    Of course, if a combination lever was going to break then what caused it to do so would probably have happened at 75 or 90 so either way we were destined for what happened. However, you do wonder what all the fuss over 'no fast paths' is actually about. Today was a 75 mph path - one that has been used before. Agreed that it's probably only Tornado with its frugal water usage that could do York in one water stop but we are only talking here about Tornado.

    Irrespective of the speed business, today was a bad, sad day for steam and a set back for the A1ST. It's great to travel at 90 but far better would be greater flexibility around 75, in my view. That's how to run steam efficiently on the main line.
     
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  20. thickmike

    thickmike Member

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    Think that is now correct Dan
     

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