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Bluebell Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Jamessquared, Feb 16, 2013.

  1. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Essentially the answer is more under cover storage. The ASH project provides a bit more workshop space under cover and better display, but isn't a major change in total amount of space under cover. However, OP4 (for the carriages) has, or will, free up a lot of space at HK, and that has catalysed a discussion around the railway about what comes next, i.e. what form might OP5 take. So I think we will get there, but everything takes time and money.

    (And I'm another one for thinking Sharpthorn deserves space under cover ahead of most of the rest of the fleet).

    Tom
     
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  2. dan.lank

    dan.lank Member

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    You’re quite right, storage is the answer... I’d love to see an Engine House style development in the old goods yard area of West Hoathly - if I somehow came into a lot of money...!

    I must confess I sort of hope nothing gets very developed on the sidings at HK - so far all the building work in yard for carriage sheds etc has still kept the character of the station intact really well. Don’t feel like it’s impinged or anything... I’d be nervous that a big shed or something on the sidings would change the feel of the station forever...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  3. Leafent

    Leafent New Member

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    I think some kind of OP5 is probably necessary, given some of the vintage coaches, not sure which ones are still outside. (Isn't one a LSWR coach?) It would also give an opportunity to get some of the Goods Wagons inside.
     
  4. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I believe that when OP4 is completely filled, the combination of OP4, the Sheffield Park carriage shed, and the space in the C&W works is sufficient that all wooden bodied carriages -whether operational, under repair or stored - can be accommodated under cover.

    That still leaves all the heritage goods stock; a collection of passenger rated vans outside, and probably half the locos. Finger in the air I would say that means another space about equivalent in size to OP4 is needed - where that is, and whether it ends up being one building or several is still I think a matter of debate.

    Tom
     
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  5. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    Please excuse my ignorance, but what are OP4 and OP5? From context I'm guessing some form of undercover storage?
     
  6. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    OP4 is the name of the fourth phase of Operation Undercover. It consists of a large carriage shed at Horsted Keynes with four storage roads, each equivalent in length to about 5 full size bogie carriages; and a fifth maintenance road equipped with pits, jacks etc. For some reason it became known as OP4 rather than the more obvious OU4, I assume because people shortened “operation” to “op”.

    OP5, by continuation, is the casual name that is being used in discussions to reference the as yet unscoped fifth phase of Operation Undercover, whatever that turns out to be.

    See http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/shedappeal.html

    Tom
     
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  7. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    This is surely a contradictory view? West Hoathley is undeveloped and a rare example of an otherwise unused rural goods yard and should be developed displaywise as such. It's too late to save HK from that point of view so better to build there if it is necessary.
     
  8. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    On the contrary, there is nothing at all at WH, save the footings of the platforms.
    Kingscote, on the other hand, has a long term plan at work to display the goods facilities of a typical country station in an unspoilt setting.
    There is much available land at WH. Whether the railway will ever be allowed to put it to good use (ie. railway rather than housing) is another matter altogether.
     
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  9. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I can see where @dan.lank is coming from with regard HK. Thus far all the development has been on the western (down) side of the station, so all the views looking eastwards are unaffected. That would change with development of the up sidings. You would end up with, probably on a bigger scale, something like the western side of Sheffield Park, but with the significant difference that the new museum and canopy wall at SP essentially blocks a view over an industrial estate, whereas at HK, you would block a view over countryside. Apart from the visual amenity, that countryside is potentially important to any interpretation of the station - why was there such a huge station in the middle of nowhere?

    Of course, if you don't use that space, then you end up with the situation whereby you have a large expanse of sidings with little on them, while there is still a pressing need for storage space.

    Moving north, the solution for having an undeveloped rural goods yard as a display is being met at Kingscote.

    Which leaves West Hoathly. At the moment there is no station there, so before any development of passenger amenities such as a museum / storage building, that would have to be addressed. The signalling is such that I don't think WH would ever revert to being a block post with full signalling etc. but there is passive provision at Kingscote that would allow provision of the minimal point work and signals necessary for a storage building there, presumably along with a halt platform. Personally, that would be my preferred location, but it clearly has other dependencies (most notably providing a station) that wouldn't be the case at HK.

    Thinking of timescales, the last revision of the Long Term Plan was approved in 2013, and there is normally a review every 5 years or so. That suggests to me that an discussion within the BRPS membership about the detail of what the next phase of Operation Undercover might consist of is absolutely due.

    Tom
     
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  10. nine elms fan

    nine elms fan Part of the furniture

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    There would be access problems at West Hoathley, there is a very strong residence association present there, as I and proberly a few others on here will remember when notice of extending the Bluebell to Kingscote, the residence fought tooth & nail to stop any sort of station or halt at West Hoathley and won their case.
     
  11. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    What was their concern - did they not want traffic/parking to/from a halt/station, or what?

    Noel
     
  12. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Very likely that well known and all too influential British species indignatus harrumpherans was involved. Mind you they may have feared the potential for a linear scrapyard!

    PH
     
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  13. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    I think you're getting confused between ordinary residents of a country settlement and yourself there Paul!
     
  14. 21B

    21B Part of the furniture

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    Would road access be required (if it would it would likely need planning)? It is possible that it would not, and in fact it might be an advantage for secure storage. I dont know what the legal basis of the extension was, but normally railways have permitted development rights that would allow the construction of an operational building such as a carriage shed on railway land without planning. So it is possible I guess that the railway could (providing it was willing to take the flack and providing the legal basis for that part of the railway is an LRO or other statutory basis that doesnt contain a restriction (like a T&W can)) just build some sidings and a carriage shed and the residents can go.....
     
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  15. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Absolutely not. "Normals" are unlikely to share "gricers love of grot" and people in West Hoathley would be only too aware of what Horsted Keynes had become until the Bluebell took it in hand recently.

    PH
     
  16. nine elms fan

    nine elms fan Part of the furniture

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    That was the crux of it, but they just did not want the railway full stop but as it was a reinstatement they could not stop it, 75% of the people who live in West Hoathley did not remember the railway before it closed, if I remember rightly the chairman of the residence association was a high court judge who move to WH about 20 years before the railway was going to extend saying he moved there for the peace & tranquillity etc.
     
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  17. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    Oh I have no doubt that they wouldn't take kindly to lots of items of rolling stock stored doing nothing and slowly degrading. In fact, I doubt many enthusiasts themselves have, as you put it, "gricers love of grot", and you do many of us a disservice by generalising all of us as liking such things.
    My point, however, is that I suspect that long term storage of items of rolling stock probably wasn't something the locals anticipated when the prospect of constructing a station was proposed. It was probably more the prospect of many enthusiasts arriving and parking their cars in front of residents' homes and clogging up their streets while they had a train ride, and the prospect of steam locos being around for longer periods of time and therefore having more time to belch smoke and soot into gardens.
     
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  18. 21B

    21B Part of the furniture

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    The problem with much of the South East is that people with wealth (generally from London) move out to the rural areas in search of something resembling a scene on the top of the biscuit tins of yore. They outbid everyone else for the property they buy and in the process assume a level of ownership in their minds over the entire environment. Quite often these are people of middle age onwards who are also seeking a quieter time....meaning less change, or in fact more like, only the change which they themselves approve of, so swimming pools in gardens are good, a leisure centre for the local town built is bad ... you get the idea.
     
  19. nine elms fan

    nine elms fan Part of the furniture

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    Easy to say hard to put into practice, don't get me wrong I love the Bluebell I remember going to HK when the third rail was still in place and love all the progress that has been made there, but I remember the wrangling that went on at WH when the line was being extended, being held up because of the court process.
     
  20. 21B

    21B Part of the furniture

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    BTW, thats not to say that I feel that development of a railway or indeed anything else is intrinsically good. Appropriate development in the right place balancing everyones needs
     

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