Paignton and Dartmouth Railway

Going back to the Goodrington situation I noticed that the July 2008 Railway Magazine adds to speculation with the following information: (feel free to shout if this has been mentioned in an earlier post).

‘The Paignton & Dartmouth Railway is preparing a radical revision of ideas for the redevelopment of it’s Paignton station.
Plans for the terminus have centred on the adaption of an old cinema next to the station, purchased many years ago with this in mind.
Such use of the building has, however, met with strong local opposition.
The re-think hinges on concluding negotiations to buy sidings near Goodrington Sands from Network Rail.
If that deal comes about, stock currently stabled at Paignton could go to Goodrington, thus releasing space for development that would not involve the empty cinema – which could then be leased out for further use”

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Regards
Steve

 

I am always puzzled about those who worry that locos that are given names. It has often happened often in the past (and I don't mean names classes) and most of the general public, who do stump up the money, really are not that clued up - or even concerned - about named locos or otherwise. A name is far more easily remembered than a number!

What punters like to see is a well turned out loco and something they can remember, or identify, with after their journey.

Time never stood still on the pre-nationalized railways and whilst many try to believe it did and that the clocked 'stopped' in 1948 - it didn't.

As for "heritage" look at what is out there. Many lines operated by former G.W.R (or western Region) locos when they in reality never ran anywhere nearby; even foreign locos. Whose
"heritage" is that?

It seems to me that those who guide the P&DSR, like many good tourist attractions in this area, have one thing in mind: to give the holiday maker, plus his family, a good day out at a reasonable price. That's the reason why most people travel on the line.

 

As far as I know, If there were no objections as stated in this document: http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/l ... 080108.pdf, then DVR PLC by now, own the former Sidings at Goodrington South.
Certainly Tuffer will know.
Also, I noticed new signals on the relief line at Goodrington, is this now in full operation?

 

I havn't spoken here for a while been busy with work all over the place. (Worcester, Pilowell nr Lydney and Somersetc to name a few places).

The first thing I would like to agree with this staement

I think the knowledge he has given us within his limits has been very interesting.

Secondly on the subject of naming locos I don't see a problem with it as it seems to be the PDSR's thing and every railway needs something different.
I have actually taken a few friends and family to the PDSR and or South Devon when they've been on holiday etc and they have thought the names were a nice touch, especially when they realised why they wer named, Clearly Tuffers right most of the general public like it and can remember the names.

Also another though which occurs to me is children when they come to a railway they see tyhe names and remember them, I don't know about you but when I was a kid I could (without opening that can of worms again) remember all of Thomas the Tank Engine names, this was also said for the locos to an extent on the PDSR (although a lot of them wern't named then, but definately remembered Ashley and Errol from the SDR). This may or may not have been what started my interest in railways and a familiarity with certain locos, so if a few names are whats needed to make children interested and the general public then so be it as remember some of these will be the volunteers of the future! (And yes I do intend to be as soon as I complete a few plans).
Another thing is that many other railway lines have named engines for one reason or another and I'm going to use the SDR as a example. There they have Errol Lonsdale, Sapper, Glendower, Ashley, Lady Angela and 1420 used to be named Bulliver, and also a lot ofthe diesels have one name or nickname or other, nobody complains about these as such.

As for Braveheart carrying a name when you got him he did he carried it because he used to travel past where they filmed the movie and so they had to stop filming or refilm the bits where he was in the background, as it didnt really fit in with the film. So as such she is named Braveheart after the film so I suppose a little famous.

Also is this because you are naming 4277 Hercules and its being renamed for BC as hes leaving> I only think this as I've heard unconfirmed rumours that he had something to do with this one and that's why she was named as such. Also it kind of messes up the theme doesn't it.

Also did nobody pay attention at the Heritage Weekend as there was a model of the proposed diagram of the new facilities being installed at Paignton. I believe the sidings at Goodrington have been sought for a while and this is going to become a temporary terminus whilst work is carried out at Paignton and possibly sidings in a future vision, but again Tuffer would know more on this.

 

Right,

1. Thanks for your positive feedback. Im giving out information as and when i can without putting myself in a tight spot. A lot of the comments here go back to the bosses and may bear fruit!

2. I'm not telling you the 42's name! Ha. Wait and see! She is going green though, top dog decision, we quite fancy her going black or different from the others, partly just coz they look good and partly so we dont get on the wrong engine!

BC is moving on shortly, going to a few days a week in the next month or so. He's staying on to keep his vast railway knowledge in to help the new chap, who's completely railway green! Also one of his projects is to spearhead the changes we're doing at Goodrington.

We hope to bring back in the 2nd platform, this will give us another useful passing slot on the line, particuarly useful on summer weekends for charters, especially the August Bank Holiday, Dartmouth Regatta, we run our 2 trains and 3 mainline charters are pencilled in too.
We also hope to make some vast alterations in the old "New Yard". This will be hugely advantagious to the line giving some much needed storage space near to Paignton. The DVR have bought the area from NR, at the moment the lawyers are passing the paperwork around.

Sorry to say the designs of the new Paignton station seen at the Heritage weekend were plan C and currently we're on....ummmm, well last i saw was F.1. The cinema preservation order has really stalled us a lot. And has done FAR more damage to the building in the process. 100 yards down the road is the Apollo multiscreen. Thus we've been stuck with a building that we cant really change and to lease out would be tricky, but we may be getting somewhere with this, not sure yet. Most of the current planned alterations/updates to Paignton look at purely the buildings. Track layout will stay 95% the same. The workshops will be modernised and extended, the booking hall reworked, the offices moved, the crew areas updated and moved, and a static display created.

These changes are big ones. Along with the possibility of more heritage events, possibly with UNnamed engines, dining trains and other specials. The christmas event is looking at being updated/reworked, and the possibility of mainline steam coming in at christmas.

 

I think we are all just eager to see 4277 in action, could you at least tell us when you know she's going to be in service if you can without putting yourself in a tight spot.

I also think we are all curious about the Paignton and Goodrington plans and they sound really large and adventurous so by the time the come to "fruit" as it were you may have used up the alphabet, especially when the paperworks been shuffled.

I wait with eager anticipation as I think everyone does and if nothing else you do seem to be the talk of enthusiasts (or the ones I've spoken too) in the South West. As the Scouts say all publicity is good publicity unless it's really bad.

and thanks again for your info without it we wouldn't know a lot of what we do

 

I only chanced across this thread yesterday despite living locally, but exciting times appear to be just around the corner.
Can I join in with the thanks to your goodself Tuffer for keeping us informed.

Almost everyone agrees that there is so much untapped potential with the P&DSR. The line has pretty well everything - good gradients, a tunnel, scenery, passing points, mainline connection and of course the historic town of Dartmouth as a destination which appeals to the fairer sex, thus justifying the train journey.

I spent much of this evening reading all of the 17 pages and there is an enormous amount of common sense written.

Many of my own ideas appear to have already been covered:
Certainly, more events such as galas and visiting engines will draw the crowds.
Regarding the latter - why not do a swap with another Heritage line for a season, that way there is an incentive for both parties and transport costs can be shared.
We've got enough 'local' railways who would surely consider this - SDR, B&WR, WSR, ESR, Swanage to name a few.

Dare I mention a diesel or maybe mixed traffic gala such as the WSR put on.

As a previous traveller on the school trains of the 1960s between Paignton & Churston, what's the situation regading the operation of school trains with the support of the local authority I wonder?
Good employment for the 'Rat' each day.

Obtaining rights to run back to Torquay & Newton would enhance this of course but that may be many years down the road (or possibly not if road fuel continues it's current trend).
It may even avoid the need for the Kingskerswell bypass!

Earlier in the thread it was mentioned that the intermediate timetable was dropped - this was in fact after the 2004 season. 2 train operation is now only the peak 6 weeks of late July to the end of August.
I wonder why this was as the trains often load heavily before the school holidays? Last year the trains in mid July were often loading up to 9, 10 or 11 bogies.

Anyway, best of luck with the 42 and we all look forward to seeing it in traffic. Black would definitely be my choice of livery!

Steve

PS Regarding the siding at Goodrington New yard, I believe the last train to use these sidings was the ecs of the 1743 Paignton-Peterborough on 24 June 2000, which was stored in these sidings. The loco was 66236, I think I may have a photo somewhere.

 

4277 "will" (acts of god/disasters permitting) definately be in service by the peak service, mid july i think, the painting should take a week or 2 once we get her cleaned down, believe me she is the priority job at the moment as we want the engine in traffic.

The peak season has been kept to 6 weeks because we have to pay our staff, not being funny. But 2 trains requires 2 crews, 2 guards, tti's and coaches/engines. Our main engines are quite capable of running with 10, and the 52/42 is/will be perfectly capable of 12+. Our traffic follows a very commuter-esque flow. TO dartmouth in the morning and FROM dartmouth in the afternoon. The middle trip and end trip are usually a lot quieter.

 

I can fully understand your thinking regarding the intermediate timetable Tuffer.
Most people would be happy to see a 10 or 11 coach train on Goodrington bank rather than two 7 coach trains.

On another subject - what's the chance of 7827 going into authentic BR livery?
It was never a GW engine of course.
That shouldn't affect it's appeal to the holidaymakers but would satisfy us purists.

Regards
Steve

 

I'm not sure but I think pigs and flying may come to mind with that request.
But on the upside what with all the changes afoot at the PDSR you never know what may happen.

 

I am very pleased that 4277 will be green. I have always lived close to green engines. Black smacks of LMS. :smt003

 

I travelled on the 1615 Paignton to Kingswear yesterday, (with 6 on behind the Manor), and I'd just like to echo some of the positive comments above.
Polite and friendly station staff, a clean train, right time departure, stunning scenery and all for a reasonable walk-on fare made for an enjoyable trip. Admittedly, none of the stations is a picture-postcard scene, but as an Engineer by profession I find that understandable given the nature of running the railway, and the views along the line from the Devon Belle observation car (another excellent feature) more than made up for utilitarian station buildings.
One small point: would you be able to put up a more prominent sign on the Network Rail side of Paignton station? When approaching form the bus station on foot, as I did, you can't always see the painted sign on the wall of the cinema and it could be confusing where you need to go.
As for the colour of the rolling stock - I couldn't care less - it was worth it just to see hear and smell the engine working up the bank!

 

I agree 100% 7827 in late BR green, 4277 in BR Black (mmm) BUT..... I think Tuffer's first post starting this topic already answered the question... "But before you start the rant let me lay down a few ground rules...
1. The liveries will not be re-authenticated, i.e. coaches will always be named, as will tank engines, and be over lined!....."

I don't think the management are going to budge on liveries - If the staff can't influence them, none of us have a hope, and unless the public write in in their droves complaining, then its status quo. I'm not even sure they would agree if a load of us clubbed together to pay for a re-paint (although no-one has tried this yet to my knowledge!!) So we may as well enjoy the locos for what they are.

 

It could happen, we'll have to see. In times past the diesel group that lived on the line had 4588 repainted into BR lined green for a gala, they bought the paint, paid for our painters time and helped with the rubbing down...

 

This has been a long and very interesting thread. Unlike many on the Forum, it has not developed into silliness and slanging but, for the most part, the contributers have been local people who obviously really like the line. My only connection with it is that I've holidayed in the area for many years and on the few occasions when the weather is bad, I resort to a trip on the line. Most years I just sit in the sun on the quayside at Dartmouth and watch the comings and goings. What does impress me most is the professionalism' of the Railway. OK, the staff are all paid and I suppose by definition are professional but that's not what I'm meaning. The Railway seems to operate like clockwork. Ten minute turnrounds, as practised in peak season, has got to be impressive by any standards, especially when you also have to get all the grockles off and on! Elsewhere on the Forum there's discussion on loco shortages but the PDR seems to exist quite happily with just 3 or 4 operational steam locos and they are worked hard so certainly don't have an easy life. The PW always seems to be excellent and give a good ride, as well. I was certainly impressed to watch the coach cleaning process at lunchtime last year. Train arrived behind the Pannier, loco unhooked and crew went for lunch. The 350 straight on the back and, with a shunter in charge,and someone operating the mobile carriage washing equipment, the set was dragged back and forth andwell cleaned on both sides within a very short period. At the same time a cleaner was going through the coaches removing litter that had built up from the mornings passengers. It went so much like clockwork and all within the crew's 40 minute lunch break.
To me, the PDR isn't a 'preserved' railway. It is a railway doing the job of transporting holidaymakers between two points as efficiently as possible, but one that just happens to use steam locos. And it does it very well, thank you. Long may it continue. =D> =D>

 

Good to hear your comment Steve. I know us locals, not employed by the P&DSR can only look on in reality, bit it doesnt stop us being interested or enthusiastic about the line. I've grown up with it. I think my interest in steam started after I had a look on the footplate of either 7827 or 5239 as a nipper in the early 70's. Got a faded colour pic somewhere!.

Incidentally, there have been some evening specials this week - I would guess private hires, maybe part of the CIWM conference in Paignton? Enabled me to get some nice shots with the sun at a low angle - as below.....

 

Hear Hear. I have known and loved the Kingswear branch since the early 70's when the Dart Valley first took it over from BR, and I still visit at least once a year. I dont care about the names on the locos or the coach liveries because when I photograph the PDR I am recording an aspect of steam operation in the early 21st century, not trying to recreate scenes from the 50's or 60's which is possible and very enjoyable on many other lines. Today's shot of a dubiously named loco hauling a "wrong" liveried train, which enthusiasts today might ridicule, will one day be a valuable insight into the preservation world of the past.
To anyone who may not like the PDR's methods, I would suggest that one day you go to the beach at Goodrington, hire a deckchair, point it out to sea, sit down and just listen as 7827 starts 8 coaches from the station and hammers up the bank. You dont have to see the dodgy names or liveries, and I guarantee you won't be disappointed.

 

And to get you in the mood for a visit - listen to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZPExhFykPU

 

Nice one Stu =D> =D>

 

Hi, yeah last weeks late specials were for the bin men!! Good fun was had by all, one night was trip to kingswear, followed by drinks in loacal pub and a trip back. Then the 2nd was a trip to kingswear, food out on the boat up the river and then back for bed!