Rother Valley Railway

With regard to public transport function -check out the mid hants thread for the use of the railway during the watercress festival in arlesford on last Sunday. It may not be every day, but preserved railways can and do provide a useful way of taking cars off crowded town streets on particular occasions. A well used intensive shuttle service.

Just out of interest -how much does the gwr do during the Cheltenham festival?

 

This year it was 2 8 coach trains each day, next year it may be 3. We sell all the seats on a train to a company who then sell the tickets to individuals.

 

Very well put, people are using the GWR to in effect drive to Toddington or Racecourse, and to visit Broadway, before those same families would have driven and parked in Broadway, so it is people choosing to use a heritage railway to visit another heritage attraction, very much the same as people might decide to leave the car at home, or at a local , to the line station, catch the train and then travel from Robertsbridge to Bodiam castle, or to Tenterden to visit the town .

 

It is far, far too early to draw any conclusions. It is quite common for there to be a surge of business upon an extension being opened, only for it to fall back to something like its previous level after a period when the novelty wears off. This is the fingers crossed rather than the whoopee stage.

(Apologies for thread drift)

PH

 

I agree entirely that this is necessary - winning the battle by means of a CPO may be a Pyrrhic victory if the new neighbour is still hostile.

 

What is "public transport" anyway? When the railways were first built it was with private money, separate companies, often speculating that the traffic would come (sometimes it did, sometimes it didn't). I don't see that a relatively small railway extending their line by a few miles is any different from that original ethos really. "Public ownership" of the national railway network is a relatively recent idea and certainly not a prerequisite for calling it "public transport", otherwise the various privatised bus routes wouldn't count.
Even on the surviving "main line" railways there are many journey possibilities which exist predominantly for leisure purposes; any TOC will invariably advertise days out by train on their websites and posters. So they have a newer train rather than a "heritage" one; so what? It's still leisure travel, it involves the public turning up at an advertised time and going from A to B and (more often than not) back again.

 

On that question, I am (just) on @paulhitch's side of the debate. The provisions are about public benefit, and the railways (in theory at least) provided that by providing a means of transport for goods and people - and did so back in the 19th Century, when they were undoubtedly private organisations. The transition of those powers in a way that can be used by heritage railways is, viewed in that light, an anomaly.

 

To my mind public transport is moving people from a to b where the train journey is the means not the end. So whether that is people using the GWR to get to the races, or getting the train to bodiam. Public transport is lines like the nnr providing a carriage for bikes.

Maybe it is only one day a year, but if it takes cars off the streets of arlesford, Cheltenham, holt or robertsbridge, i don’t think it is a bad thing. No one is expecting a through service to London to pick up commuters every 15 minutes.

 

Why? Once the CPO has allowed the new owner to take possession of the land there is no reason why both sides shouldn’t move on with their lives in peace; with mutual respect; and a fence along the boundary.

 

The RVR has always tried to take a similar approach. Contacts and discussions with all the landowners along the route began, I believe, in about 1993 and most of the route is now owned by the RVR. I have little doubt the RVR would be willing to discuss options for accommodation works, deviations etc. in order to address business or domestic needs. Since these discussions have rightly been kept confidential I do not know how far all the landowners were willing to engage with this process.

In the end if a landowner does not wish to negotiate after so long the promoter has two options, either give up or seek a CPO. There is no guarantee a TWAO and CPO’s will be granted. It is up to the promoter to make a good enough case for the scheme; and in response to any objections. If there is an inquiry both sides will be heard in public.

 

Indeed an open forum should not expect to receive details of negotiations.

However, there is a third way, namely patience. People move away, die, require finance or have a change of heart. I know of an instance where an area was offered at a price which was felt to be excessive and thus politely declined.Terms were later agreed. In another case, land was held under a very short term lease. Attempts to negotiate a longer term with the freeholder's agent were fruitless. The landowner duly died and terms were agreed with his heir in about twenty minutes!

I still feel the use of Compulsory Purchase to be inappropriate for this kind of project.

PH

 

can the RVR afford to wait 50+ years though, it possibly will never be built and what will they be left with running to Junction RD, and an isolated section of track and an unused station . in the meanwhile the A21 could be duelled and because there is no railway there will be no need to bridge over the crossing so preventing extending meaning so much money and effort being lost.

 

I don't know if any have been used but I was at a meeting some years ago on a canal restoration (Lancaster Canal - northern reaches) and the question was asked about stubborn landowners and the need for CP and the official stated there would be no problem in obtaining such powers for this scheme as such powers had been granted previously on other projects. So what's the difference between a canal or a railway restoration as both are essentially are in the leisure business and both can show economic benefits to the local area?

Sadly the northern reaches scheme is making little progress - and if you look at its problems (like crossing the M6 several times) it makes the Rother Valley Rly project look like a short walk in the park!

 

Yes, but how much "patience" ? 10,20 or 30 years, or more? Negotiations have already been going on for 25 years, which is about as long as the period between the farmers buying the land from BR and the RVR reinstatement being regarded as a realistic possibility (early 90's).

 

A bit longer!

PH

 

IMHO, that will stop and put in jepody the entire extension as you have no way to recoup the money you have spent , of course, if you believe extensions are a bad thing to start with, that tourist railways should all fit neatly into a pre determined box, saying wait another 50 years, is as good as saying you shouldn't have started in the first place, , I would say the RVR has no more than 10 years max, to join up both ends, or people who support the project will walk away. then that in its self has the potential to undo the RVR and possibly impact on the KESR.

 

Hmmm. Most of the people in the press articles didn't look very old, and some of the RVR's generous benefactors and supporters are already dead. I'm grateful to @fergusmacg for suggesting there may be CPO precedents in canal resoration or other heritage/tourism projects. It would be interesting to hear more.

 

Having seen the prices charged by that company I hope that you put a large mark-up onto your normal fare.

Bob.

 

Indeed. But a process based on mutual agreement is always likely to make for better long term relationships than one where one side "wins" over the other. Ruffled feathers don't always settle quickly.

 

Ideally I would hope that the Threat of an CPO, might make those around the farmer say, look, its going to happen, can't you at least try to get the best deal you can talk to them, come to some kind of deal over this, see what can be done, otherwise you will lose, we will have to live with the railway anyway once its built can we turn it to our advantage in some way?