Channel 4 Programme

What's the going rate to hire a carriage? From what I've seen of that beautiful interior, plus the long shots on the 1st episode of the series, I wouldn't be in the least surprised if there's some sort of niche market there ..... weddings, curmudgeonly old gits who relish the idea of telling peasants to naff off to third class, anniversaries, Not birthday parties for 5 year olds ... etc. etc.

 

I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed the programme. I know there was a bit of negativity in some quarters slating the timescales and potential less than idea work. But I think that is harsh and they clearly worked hard to achieve what they did in a very short timescale in carriage restoration terms.

We were approached to take part in it, but we did not have a suitable vehicle or believe we could give the required time, workforce or commitment to achieve what was required, so I take my hat off to everyone that was involved. Well done.

The biggest thing for me is that it brings to the attention of the public that work that we all do and the effort that goes in. That can only be a good thing. It raises the profile of the railway preservation movement and has the potential to bring more volunteers to the movement, which is desperately needed. I give it a big thumbs up.

There was some talk earlier in the thread about recovering materials from carriages located in farmer's fields in Scotland. The LMS Carriage association went up a few times in the late 90s and we managed to video some of our adventures which you can see here:



There's three videos there, but we do have some more still to edit after 20 years! Hehehe.

 

I was not involved with the negotiations with the production company for our project so I wonder what were you asked to achieve given the timescale?

 

Not sure but sure to be more than our other 1st class compartments and yes no kids parties in there!
Some of the bits I made clearly visible in there, but other of my work totally hidden from all view.

 

One thing that I found most ingenious with this first Gresley BCK, was to leave the first class area as an open saloon for the disabled wheelchair bound passengers. With the access being via the van area and it's double doors. I believe Peter Lung did something similar with the Thompson BTK glimpsed along with the Thompson RB once or twice. In so much as he didn't re-instate the compartments, but restored it as an Brake Third Open with disabled access via the van area.

 

From memory they were after a carriage from the 30s/40s, of which we have in abundance. However, we couldn't stretch to the manpower, money or time to do it, so we passed.

Our LMSCA folks at Wirksworth are doing something similar with a LMS BTK, which lost it's compartments years ago. The guard's compartment is being halved in size and the double doors are being used to allow disabled access. It's coming on a treat with the ceiling done and half way down the walls panelled. The seats lower half and floor are left to do as well as the outside painting.

 

Pullman Car 54 (a Pullman brake 3rd) is being adapted for wheelchair use along similar lines at the Bluebell, with access via the double doors. Funding comes in part from a grant from the Department for Transport.

Tom

 

One of the problems with converting compartments in coaches to open saloons is that the roof wont be strong enough. (especially for a wooden bodied coach). With older compartment coaches the compartment walls effectively support the roof and hold the body in shape and you will soon see where walls have been removed the roof will start to sag.
With my own coach 3 compartment walls had been removed (in the 1950s) and the roof had seriously sagged (up to about 4 inches), pushing one side out too. We had to stretch some string along the roof nailed at one end and with a weight at the other so it pulled tight and we could see how much it was sagging (and where). Then we jacked it up gently with acro props to get it back as it should be and the walls pulled back into shape before we could put the 3 missing partitions back.

With open saloons the roof was typically strengthened with steel angle iron carlions curved to shape the roof profile and then screwed to the hoop sticks and the top of both cant rails. These then made it stronger and spread the weight of the roof to the two sides and keeps both sides rigidly the correct distance apart. The wooden hoop stick on its own isn't enough. Even then they often had issues with sagging.
With a compartment coach there are no angle iron carlions because the compartment wall is doing the same job. So if you are intending to not put back partitions then you really should be strengthening the roof the same as how an open saloon was built, especially if several adjacent compartment walls have been removed.

 

The roof of 4229 has steel carlines, but the vehicle also has the benefit of its Burma Teak side framing, virtually all of which is in excellent condition.
The problem with former GWR coaches is the oak used for frames, which tends to fail at the halving joints on the waist rail.
This then tends to bulge outwards due to the weight of the roof, especially if the internal partitions have been removed.
I saw a GWR coach with a severe case of this while on holiday in the south west last year.

Bob.

 

I have to say I watched it hoping to learn something about coach restoration. Well that's an hour of my life I will never get back.

 

According to Wiki, he shares his birthday with my kid sister. Unlike my kid sister, he's 80!

 

Well aren't you full of the joys of spring!

The programme was never billed as being an instructional piece. It was mass market (as we should all expect from railway oriented TV shows) and therefore wasn't going to get into too much detail.

What a pity you couldn't just have said well done to the restorers of the carriage and also to C4 for paying for the work and broadcasting a programme about our hobby.

Keith

 

Thanks for the advice on how to live my life. I was actually being polite about what I thought, sorry if we are all supposed to think the same. I didn't g e t that memo.

 

I would be very interested to know how you think the series should have been played out for a mass audience?

 

Who knows, they may show more detail in the next 4 programmes in the series. I know what you mean though that you want to see them do the stuff.
With many of the car restoration type shows they show some wreck of a classic and then later in the programme the nearly restored car with just the guy bolting on the finished chrome headlamps and giving it a quick polish and then Voila ! it's finished and they take it for a drive somewhere and show nothing of the real work.

The only programme which I really like which really does show the work done is Wheeler Dealers and there the presenter Ed China really does show in detail what he has done and if they contract some specialist to do something, they film at the specialist too, however, after many series it has been taken over by some American TV company and Ed China fired from the program and they want to miss out all the technical stuff, which is the whole reason to actually watch the show.

 

Well we haven't seen the whole series but i doubt very much you are at all interested and I doubt it appealed to a mass audience as I'm sure the audience figures will show.

 

Have you ever walked on the roof of a Gresley or Thompson with the interior missing. They are very bouncy! There is a reason for the steel ribs in the sides of TTO carriages. Without anything to hold the cantrails together or the centre of the carlines up, the waist and cantrails spread and I have known the cantrails to spread by more than an inch. If I'm able to I like to pull and push the body back into shape by repairing or reinstating partitions before the sides are panelled and the roof canvassed.

Sawdust.

 

Well, I enjoyed the programme far more than I did the HST programme. I learned a bit about the construction of the carriage too.

My only criticism is a tiny one - couldn't the carriage have been GNR rather than LNER? <DARFC>

Looking forward to the next programmes

 

Oddly enough I haven't, but not wanting to be banned from any of our lines or their workshops, I'm quite content to take your word for it.