GWSR General Discussion and Operations

To make it more local the phrase was also used by Southern Railway and Gloucester Railway Carriage and Wagon Company Director and MP Leo Amery in 1940 to Neville Chamberlain

 

My footage of 6023 King Edward II and her last runs on the Gloucestershire Warwickshire Railway before her move to the Dartmouth Steam Railway. Enjoy.

 

Updated loco roster has 4270 returning to service on 15th July.
Good to hear of its return from Crewe.

 

Now I'm not particularly a diesel fan, but I'll quite happily admit I enjoyed doing this:



Our C+W works shunter ascended from lowly workhorse to department pet. Note the nod to its birthplace (Swindon) and its shed ( GWR 85B).

On the off chance of anyone knowing, did these have anything approaching an official colour scheme inside the cab? At the moment it's a 2 tone scheme with some sort of creamy/grey upper and an almost malachite green lower.

 

Does the plc own the loco?

 

Privately owned by a very long standing volunteer who is also well known at the SVR.

 

Thanks. I wondered if the railway was heading down the slippery slope of loco ownership!

 

No plans for that AFAIK! That shunter used to be the P-way workhorse so was involved in quite a lot of our line's history, certainly I've seen photos of it involved in track laying through Winchcombe. It also appeared in candy pink with white stripes for a short while a decade or so ago - makes small beer of my copper cap!

 

Why is that a "slippery slope" for a heritage railway? Not being a polemicist here, just genuinely curious as to the risks or benefits of a heritage railway owning its locomotives or at least some of them like the 03, which is normally allocated to specific shunting tasks at Winchcombe.

 

Being slightly mischievous! There are strongly held views expressed elsewhere that preserved railways should aspire to own all or a majority of the loco fleet, a view which I can understand but am not sure I agree with. At the moment, the GWSR (and much of the financial benefit comes from being able to run the railway with a limited number of paid staff, rather than the loco ownership model) is perhaps the best performing line financially.

 

I think there is a risk / cost model that is hard to elaborate definitively. In outline, I believe hiring in locos works out cheaper in cash terms (essentially loco owning groups provide a subsidy that has real cashable value to the host railway). In part that is the ability of loco owning groups to raise funds that they invest in their own loco; in part it is the value of volunteer support they bring; in part it is because I suspect many loco hire fees have a rate based around what the previous overhaul cost, not what the next one will cost.

The flip side is in security over what is, for a railway, a key operational essential. The fact that there is a supply of available motive power now is no guarantee it will still exist in five years time: the loco hire market may well get tougher for railways (ie competing over a smaller pool of available locos). It’s harder to guarantee availability at a fixed point in the future with a volunteer-led owning group working on an overhaul as resources permit, relative to a paid workshop that has a known capacity available. Even a loco with a strong affiliation to a line may disappear - vide 4160 on the West Somerset.

For a line to own some or all of its own locos is essentially a bet on mitigating that risk but at a cost. I tend to favour a mixed economy, but preferably with long-term agreements with loco owners, rather than annual agreements.

Tom

 

I think that sums it up quite well, and I'm fairly comfortable with the path we've taken, we make it our business to make sure that Toddington is an attractive place to base a loco and we have good relationships with all the groups who are well integrated on the line.

 

Yes indeed. I remember seeing King George arrive from a scrapyard (together with Peckett 0-4-0ST "John - still at the GWSR) at Witney. That would have been around 1980. 2807 was the first ex-GWR/BR loco to arrive, in June 1981.

 

I agree with the GWRs policy of hiring stuff in, but is that fully the case though, there seems to be a number of locos which have left. Owsden Hall seemed to get forced off the railway and the owner told to take it away, not sure about the Stanier 8F that left too. Any private owner of a loco/coach/wagon is in quite a vulnerable position in that the railway that hosts it can suddenly demand it leave, and often just a few individuals that get themselves into a position of power like a trustee etc and then start making life difficult. This is especially the case if some or all the items are unrestored and the owner then can be put in a difficult situation of trying to find a new home for it.

 

Note that 76077 is making a serious attempt at restoration. They are looking for support - a first newsletter is available as of a few days ago.

 

Didn't the 8F leave because the GWSR was unable to guarantee it sufficient running days - and therefore earnings?

 

Whilst agreeing that hiring locos is the most cost effective way of doing things, I can see the loco hire market contracting substantially in the future. For the most part these locos are owned by groups of enthusiasts that want to see their loco restored and run and put in a lot of volunteer time to that end.. However, the age profile of thee groups reflects the trend in the movement, as a hole. there ar plenty of youngsters coming along but not in sufficient numbers to support the various loco owning groups. NELPG is probably the most successful of the traditional loco owning groups with four locos in its care. It is relatively cash rich thanks to the regular use of 62005 on the West Highland. However, in recent times it has struggled to overhaul and maintain it fleet solely by volunteers. The NYMR has had to step in and help finish both 65894 and 6339, something that would have been unheard of twenty years ago. What I can see happening in the future is loco owning groups selling off their assets to railways or possibly entering into long term run and repair/overhaul contracts with railways. In other words, the group continue to own the asset but that is about all. Some already do this.
IMHO, a railway should have enough owned locos to maintain its services but should utilise hire locos if they are available to them. An owned loco that spends the majority of its time on standby is not going to wear out rapidly and the costs of boiler overhauls are not going to be significant. It also makes the argument for extended '10 year ticket' periods much more compelling as these are not cast in tablets of stone.

 

Agreed, I think you are saying much the same as I was! I can definitely see the hire market tightening in the future: either fewer locos available, or the price going up as increasingly groups need to use professional labour to carry out overhauls. I also wouldn't be surprised to see further transfers of locos, especially as the current custodians get to the point of not being able to put the resources in to overhaul them. Here in the south that has already happened within the last few years with the Wainwright C and H on the Bluebell (transferred to the Bluebell Railway Trust); three Ivatts and the Stroudley E1 on the Isle of Wight, etc.

On the Bluebell, I'd put the Maunsell Loco Society as another very successful group (like the NELPG): they have four of their own locos (plus a fifth on a custodianship arrangement), of which two are in traffic and the third well advanced through its current overhaul.

Tom