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Killingworth Billy now even older?

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Ploughman, Jun 15, 2018.

  1. Ploughman

    Ploughman Part of the furniture

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    Just found this this morning on the BBC Tyne and Wear page.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-44482970

    A steam locomotive has been declared one of the oldest in the world after researchers discovered it was built 10 years earlier than originally thought.

    The George Stephenson-built Killingworth Billy was believed to have been constructed in 1826.

    However, a new investigation of the engine, on show at North Shields Stephenson Railway Museum, suggests it was constructed in 1816.

    That would make it the third-oldest surviving locomotive in the world.
     
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  2. JayDee

    JayDee Member

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    Well, Mr Gibson's a Brave 'un!

    I dunno about others but I was taught it was the developments the Rocket at the Rainhill Trials brought with it were what made it so important to development as it marked a step-change in speed and power compared to contemporary Newcomen locomotives like Sans Peril.
     
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  3. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    well I suppose the test would be if it could be shown that the loco had innovations that led to the Rocket.

    I always thought the multi tubular boiler was the sea-change
     
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  4. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    That and the humble blast pipe. (That was Rocket, wasn't it?)
     
  5. D6332found

    D6332found Member

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    They'll find 'Catch Me Who Can' right on public view in the Science Museum next:Morewaitingisrequired:
     
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  6. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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  7. Miff

    Miff Part of the furniture Friend

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    Or perhaps Killingworth Billy is now a little younger than the 'possibly' 1814 date conjectured in this forum a few years ago.
    https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/historic-locos.301374/#post-882349

    This was based on previous research by Michael Bailey, outlined in his 2014 book Loco Motion and elsewhere. Some sources had previously dated it as about 1830. Billy's wheels, frame and boiler are not original since it had several rebuilds over its working life but the 6ft 4in wheelbase, together with other significant dimensions & arrangements, is the same as contemporary evidence of the earliest Killingworth locomotives - the first of which was built in 1814. So it sounds like Mr. Bailey's recent survey of the loco has confirmed this and pinned the date down to 1816. Looking forward to hearing more.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2018
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  8. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Alas, no. Richard Trevithick used a blastpipe in rudimentary form in the 1804 Pen-y-Daren loco, and by Rocket's time, it had been used by just about everyone, including G & R Stephenson and, particularly, Timothy Hackworth.
     
  9. Miff

    Miff Part of the furniture Friend

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    Rocket’s significance was in combining a number of existing technical innovations in a way which worked well and set the pattern for all that followed. And the best name for a locomotive. Ever.

    Until recently it had been thought Billy was a rather less exciting example of Robt. Stephenson & Co. late 1820s production.

    Billy’s significance now is:
    The oldest SG locomotive in existence.
    The oldest surviving George Stephenson locomotive, and although not the very first one a unique example of his first locomotive type for his first client.
    The third oldest surviving locomotive.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
  10. Miff

    Miff Part of the furniture Friend

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    A lecture by Michael Bailey and Peter Davidson, to the Newcomen Society, about their archeological study of the Killingworth Billy is now on YouTube:
     
  11. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Well-Known Member

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    I find it amazing that Billy remained in service until 1879... It would be absolutely archaic by that time... It's difficult to picture it alongside such new-fangled machinery as Bellerophon and believe it was from the same age.

    So, when will it be restored to steam?!

    Richard.
     
  12. garth manor

    garth manor Well-Known Member

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    Per RSH " All our records show is that this firm built two engines for Killingworth colliery in 1825, the Ravensworth and the Killingworth, and another in 1830 named Billy".
     

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