Edmonson tickets a lost "cause" for ever?

EPOS isn't that expensive in the overall scheme of things, and people expect to be able to pre-purchase tickets online, get receipts etc etc. Edmondson machines presumably don't come cheap, at least not in good nick, and require continual maintenance. The tickets themselves have to be bought in, and that means the supplier charging the railway at a level that gives them a profit margin: if the railway wants its money back, it's going to have to stick a levy on that souvenir ticket that I very much doubt most visitors will want to pay if that's not their actual ticket - and if it is compulsory, expect a consequent drop-off in visitor numbers...

 

Fine, if you are content with a steam experience model, then I would agree - tickets do not matter. But otherwise, it is a part of the whole - and one that is frankly pretty inexpensive compared to the alternatives.

 

What do you mean, a steam experience model?

Personally, I think that this will only be solved by carrying out a comprehensive visitor survey, and I'd be willing to bet that 90% of respondents couldn't give a pig's arse.

 

I suspect something that's "just" a ride on a steam train, the difference between going on a mainline steam train and a heritage railway, minus the added excitement of speed.

 

Have you actually read the thread, and the comments from people with experience in this area? Decent systems - including the back ends - are not cheap, and require skill to get value from - if they actually provide the information that you need without the supplier charging extra. They are also prone to needing upgrading from time to time - in a way and to an extent that analogue technology does not - the system that I helped install 10 years ago is now "legacy", and due for retirement because obsolete. In just the same way that it is easier to preserve steam locomotives than their diesel and electric successors. Online shop services - which are not EPOS systems - are available, and can be used as in addition to rather than instead of traditional ticketing systems.

I work in IT. It is a truism that clients who customise their systems rather than changing how they work to fit the system design end up paying a whole load more for them, and get worse service from the vendors - because the customisations are unique to them. That's fine if you fit a more or less standard business model - I've had the debate with clients over this. But when your business model isn't standard, then good luck - because you'll need that and deep pockets.

 

But you haven't answered the other side of the question - what is the justification for the cost of EPOS? Either of us may be right, and the impact may vary depending on which railway we're talking about.

As for a customer survey, you - again - miss the point. It is not that the type of ticket is make or break for a railway - I still visit the NYMR despite the horrible things they give you at Pickering. It is that it is part of the overall experience, and at some point the experience is undermined. Following the NYMR line of thought, it is the horrible great 1970s or 80s signal MAS gantry that compromises the experience; at the Bluebell, I avoid Sheffield Park station as much as possible because the down side building developments have ruined - for me - the historical feel of the place despite strenuous efforts.

 

We paid under 200 for our Edmondson machine and type! The cheapest epos wil cost £££s. As for continual maintenance, don't make me laugh! A new ribbon once a year and a drop of oil on the hinge once in a blue moon. These machines have lasted over a century and are bullet-proof - there''s nothing to go wrong inside. Unlike an epos. People can pre-purchase edmondsons online too, it's not hard to figure out, and they can get a receipt too if required, again it's not hard to work out. Of course the tickets have to be bought in, just like you have to buy epos rolls. At 2.2p per ticket out of a ticket price of ££s it's insignificant and that edmondson ticket will still be intact and bearing your message long after your epos till receipt has turned into a blank square of paper.

Like I said before, clever epos salesmen...

 

Nice post Marty (and welcome btw )

Does anyone have any cost analysis from the other side?

 

Edmonsons may be only a small part of the overall heritage experience but lots of small parts make up the whole. Dismiss one as unnecessary and how long before another small part is consigned to the dustbin, then another, then another?

 

The sheer scale of alterations to increase luggage capacity on IW stock is very noticeable to any who've studied the subject. Even in independant days, several superannuated passenger carriages were recycled as luggage vans. This tendancy was notable from the introduction of paid holidays right through to the end of steam. If the histories are correct, most of the luggage accomodation probably only ever saw much use on Saturdays.

Sounds more like like aurochs to me!

 

To whom? It clearly does matter to many (most?) contributors to this thread. You seem to be saying 'the only things that matter are the things that matter to me'.

Is that what you're saying?

 

Quite wrong.

We forget that for most heritage railway passengers, the experience is mostly taken up with sitting in the carriage and listening (not seeing) the loco because (unlike some ‘enthusiasts’) they are sensible enough to read and obey the motives about not leaning out of the window.

The ticket, having it. Lipped and the interaction with the TTI or Guard is a significant part of that. If I had a pound for the number of times I have heard grandparents explaining to young visitors about ‘proper tickets like we used to have’, there would be some full donation boxes.

Robin

 

The times when I visit any of our preserved railways, I always prefer to be given an card ticket, not a modern computer generated one, and here's why, Its about how you perceive the railway, your visit, see, I would like to walk into an heritage station booking office that looks like its a representation of what ever era the station is portraying, and if I go to the window, assuming its got one, then I expect to see a rack of cards, and for it to be as it was, ok I know these days we all pay by card, but the card machine does not have to be out there on the counter, it can be on a shelf and the booking clerk hands it to you to swipe, input your pin etc, its out of sight,, now you will of course get a receipt, but a proper ticket for your jouney and maybe a gift aid form should be no problem, if I'm handed a modern ticket, it ruins it, I want to be allowed to think I am back in a less stressful for me era

 

Perhaps those who think Edmonsons are a waste of time would like to explain why Dunster Booking Office would be better off without them and the date press.

Robin

 

comprehensive visitor surveys are not welcomed in my opinion.
Railways are selling the whole experience , not just a steam train ride. It's the little things that seize peoples imagination and you don't get much littler than an Edmondson ticket. Many kids nowadays will never have ridden on a train of any sort, and even a DMU journey has it's charm and plus points.

 

Or this pair from Blue Anchor from the 1950’s and last year...?

The booking clerk is getting a bit worn down by the argument!!!

 

What is the reasoning behind EPOS machines in ticket offices? Booking clerks have their registers that they tally up tickets sold money taken, complimentary s issued etc, and I assume these are totalled up at the end of each day and money banked i'm assuming every station on a line will have some arrangement where by they keep records and that in turn goes to the railways offices at the end of each working day, On the KESR Tenterden had EPOS but none of the other stations did as far as I know, so that meant any ease of accounting was nullified, unless it was done because commercial thought it worth doing, I can understand having epos systems in the restaurant rooms, as it helps with stock control,and ordering, but what does it do with train tickets, when I can think of far easier ways , for instance if your prebooking a dining train, you just need a simple programme and a laptop/ desk top, that you can fill in peoples details and issue blank tickets with seat numbers you know your stations, and you don't do NR designations, so that limits the usefulness of EPOS systems as most recording can be done by the booking clerk on a laptop to the railways accounting soft wear .

 

Sorry to have to say it, but I fear you don't know what an Edmondson ticket 'system', let alone an EPOS, involves. If so, try this: http://chriswhitetickets.yolasite.com/Ticket_Office.php

I am sure there are variations, but basically:

Edmondson 'System'

1. Wooden ticket rack, with 'tubes' holding tickets.
2. Removable pieces on rack with ticket description and price. Double sided for quick price changes, or even more than sets of prices, these are just softwood and spares readily kept. Ticket prices actually changed by putting on new stickers or using Tipex!
3. Tickets - printed on card and sequentially numbered and LOADED CORRECTLY. (!)
4. Date press and lead dates. Some places use a more modern hand press.
5. 'Ticket book' - used for cashing up. Closing numbers recorded from tickets, opening deducted to produce number sold, then timed by fare and added up to give total takings, number of tickets sold and hence by adjustments (e.g. deduct dogs and bikes, adjust for family or other tickets covering more than one person), number of passengers. All this can be done more quickly using a spreadsheet, which can be set up with a summary sheet that can be e-mailed or remotely accessed by accounts, and am integrated 'Cashing Up Sheet', which again can be e-mailed, printed or remotely accessed.
6. Changes to this 'back office reporting, searching data etc. can be done 'in house' by anyone with reasonable Excel knowledge.

EPOS System

1. Point of Sale terminal, usually touch screen.
2. Ticket printer - these often seem to be 'thermal' and will need specially printed, thin card (or paper) tickets. There often seems to be a separate 'receipt' printer.
3. Presumably internet access and ability to transmit data.
4. 'Back office' systems for collating data, which may, or may not, post this directly to the main accounting software. This will include needing adequate computing resource to host and run the system.
5. Annual support and specific training (usually chargeable) as well as charges for amending report formats or creating specific reports.

There is a website called 'EPOS' -https://www.epos.co.uk/ and I quote from its from page 'There is no doubt that purchasing an EPoS system can represent a large capital investment. Rather than focus on the day one cost...........' - in other words 'we know this is expensive but we think the output is worth it'. Where I come from is that I haven't seen any arguments or evidence that it possibly could be, given what that 'large capital investment' is likely to be (and remember, a railway with a number of stations and taking advance bookings will need several more terminals than a visitor attraction with one entrance). The same website gives free quotes (in return for your e-mail address etc.!) but states 'full' systems start at £1,300.

Steven

 

You omit the possibilities of subscription based systems, which avoid much of the capital cost, but not that of the equipment required for them to work.

From using in the most basic way the (free) iZettle system for bar work, I will also comment that the transaction process is slower than for simply totting up in my head and without a pressing need for a detailed audit trail, is of limited value for retail - that comes through being able to take card payments, where any railway able to contemplate EPOS investment will already be well set up.

 

I visited the Welshpool & Llanfair railway yesterday, and got a proper Edmondson ticket.
When I commented about this I was told it was all part of the authentic heritage experience.