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1014 County of Glamorgan

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by aron33, May 22, 2016.

  1. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    So for consistency, should every railway in the entire country that has hired in locomotives do the same?

    I rather think this comment is flippant and unwarranted.

    Twice this month I note some unpleasantness on the forum with more than a hint of the axe to grind about them. Can't say it is putting either of the two parties concerned in the best of light towards the subject of their individual ire.

    My only interest in this thread was learning about the "why" regarding the County's boiler. That being fulfilled, I wish the builders the best of luck in the building of their engine.
     
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  2. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    I think it's a case that we have to separate the enthusiast and the realist from one another. I'm under no illusions: railway preservation has to adapt and evolve to survive. That is continuous - change is a fact of life.

    I personally feel Didcot get the balance right. The quiet running sheds. The line, with train. The coal crop and water tower. Demonstrations on the turntable. The broad gauge shed. The signalling centre. The Charles Gordon Stuart Annex. There's more of course.

    I do think we need to get our facts right before piling in on a group. Didcot very much has the interests of the public and its mission statement at its heart. I'm not saying it's perfect - we all as a movement need to continue to improve - but it's such a brilliant place. Can we celebrate that please rather than condemn it for a couple of debatable engineering choices? please?
     
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  3. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    Maybe they should, I've never seen it done though. It would be a good idea though wouldn't it? I'd suggest the GWS has a few members in Devon who might spare a few hours to help promote Didcot. . The comment is neither flippant or unwarranted, however I think your comment is!
     
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  4. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    Well yes they have the potential to get the balance right but when they can't even shunt a couple of locos forward a few yards for display they aren't really trying too hard. The Public don't want quiet running sheds, they want to see trains and little Jonnie might be disappointed to see them all parked nose to tale in less than optimal conditions for viewing.
     
  5. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Having volunteers from one railway riding trains on a second and handing out leaflets would be down to the host railway to allow. I suppose the loaning organisation could insist on it as a clause in the hire agreement, but it would have to be thought through. There may well be insurance implications of having people who would essentially be working on a train (rather than riding as a passenger) but without staff ID or having gone through a safety indiction, not necessarily automatically covered under the host railway's insurance. Then there's also the issue of rostering people to do it - sounds trivial, but someone has to take that on. None of which is impossible to resolve, I'm sure, but maybe not the simple matter it might seem.

    With regard visiting locos in general, my experience is that for a loco coming for a gala, (i.e. a weekend or so) the owning group will frequently come along and have some kind of information stand available, but it is - for obvious reasons - less common for locos on long term loan.

    I quite like Didcot, and it is an enjoyable place for a visit with lots of atmosphere. They have also done many admirable things, notably having a large proportion of their stock under cover. My one criticism would be that by launching so many new build projects running concurrently, they have spread themselves rather thin in capacity to resource and fund all those projects simultaneously. Any organisation with a large membership base with diverse interests runs the risk that it can be hard to assert a hard-headed governance around starting too many projects. One of the key roles of management is to learn to say "no", or else "yes - but not yet" in a way that doesn't alienate those with enthusiasm.

    Tom
     
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  6. D6332found

    D6332found Member

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    Didcot's an amazing place. Yes, it is a bit of a short walk around with kids, but would you rather it was all Ivor and Thomas and a huge bistro cafe?
    Though of course, that could be the future if financial support dies off from constant trolling. What about an overbridge out of there, with the amount of locos they could then hire out, and the money they save in scans, might even part pay for itself and remove the headache of being landlocked.
     
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  7. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    BUT neither of the broad gauge locos are currently running and as far as I am aware there are no plans to overhaul either in the near future. It has the only stretch of broad gauge track but nothing to run on it.

    This is what I mean about neglecting what you have in favour of other things.

    Didcot has a huge collection which is a reason to go there but very little of it is working. It strikes me as poor management of resources to not have locos available for two years.

    If it is a museum collection then fine, then the locos should be conserved and displayed to their fullest. They are not.

    I am an ex-member of the gws, the newsletters seemed to always be ‘here is our latest new project’ and it seemed to me that there was far more attention being focussed on these than on the existing collection. There were constant appeals for money for new projects and I recall only one minor article about the 14xx.

    And that was my point as to why Llangollen isn’t criticised in the way in which the gws.
    813?

    But then to me that brings into sharper focus as to why there is not a push to 1363 back working alongside the 14xx.

    I will say that I am a lapsed (in the catholic sense of the word) member of the gws. I let my membership lapse because it seemed to lack direction. Ironically when i first encounter didcot it was like no where else because there was so much happening. The coaling stage, the tpo, the turntable, these days there seems to be little to be a bit dead. I am not sure about hiring stuff out - the mogul when it was running seemed to spend a lot of time out on hire.

    But I don’t want to this to derail the thread. I think I would sum up my feelings about the County project and Didcot in general as one of disappointment because both could be so much more and so much better than they are but they seem to have made a number of poor decisions and had bad luck (ie problems with 6023, illness, deaths and the boiler with the County) in recent years.
     
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  8. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Isn't that utterly irrelevant? The fact is it was taken into protective custody, at least as far as most were concerned. I know of at least two serious interested parties that were deterred from acquiring the 8F on the basis it "wasn't for disposal" from the Barry 10 collection.
    As I said up thread, breaking it up was a very premature "last resort" before more positive avenues had been fully explored and exhausted. I don't think anyone is particularly at fault, it was just a very regrettable set of events to my mind only compounded by the ultimately ill advised boiler decision that proved the catalyst for the rest.
     
  9. Penricecastle

    Penricecastle Member

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    I'll repeat what I posted earlier. If 1014's rebuilt boiler had been capable of being pressed to 250psi, there would not have been such negativity, as has been posted here,towards the whole project.

    When 1014 is eventually completed, let's just imagine it going main line. For it to perform in the same way as an original double chimney 3-row superheater 250psi County, I think it might need different handling. Regulator opening and cut-off setting determine how a loco will perform. How often is a loco driven absolutely flat-out? Hardly ever and possibly never. I think I read that the cylinders of 1014 will be slightly "bored-out" in order to improve the tractive effort figure (to partly compensate for the lower boiler pressure).

    If 1014 is driven with a wider open regulator or/and higher percentage of cut-off, surely it could perform much like an original 250psi double-chimney County, being driven less hard?

    When 6000 King George V ran on the main line in the 1970's and 80's. I'm pretty sure it was de-tuned, being pressed at 225psi, instead of 250psi (which the King class always ran at). It still produced some robust performances, particularly on Sapperton bank, I believe.

    I think it's time to move on. We should now accept that the GWS are not likely to change course and fund a complete new boiler and firebox.

    I never saw the Counties in BR days, but I look forward to seeing the completed 1014 and wish the GWS all the very best with the project. Apparently, the bark of the double-chimney versions was quite unique and very loud. It'll be nice to hear that!
     
  10. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    If it's confined to Didcot demos unlikely to fulfil that wish, sadly.
     
  11. Thompson1706

    Thompson1706 Part of the furniture

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    It is unfair to criticise the Llangollen Railway for breaking up these locos, as it was done by our contracting arm working on customers instructions. If we hadn't done it, somebody else would have.

    Bob.
     
  12. Penricecastle

    Penricecastle Member

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    Well 6023 seems to be something of a "wandering ambassador" for the GWS at present. It's been to the SVR, the Glos Warks and now the Torbay steam railway in the last five months. I think the same usage could well apply to the completed 1014.
    I hope so.
     
  13. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    Hi, I’m not criticising Llangollen at all. The ire should be directed at the customers who gave the instructions.
     
  14. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Fair comment but surely the motivation and resources that supported the 6023 were primarily a factor of its mainline future? Will folk support 1014 if they can only see it slightly extended as a nomad?
     
  15. Copper-capped

    Copper-capped Part of the furniture

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    If it can be hired out and about and perform a similar role to that which 6023 has done this year, then it will more than likely be a crowd pleaser and nice edition to gala line-ups.

    The details as to what is right or wrong under the paint, (or indeed the paint itself!), will probably be just another one of those things that only shows up on an enthusiast's radar. Mum, dad and the kids having a nice day out won't mind so much!
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
  16. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    They will, regardless of what it is that's pulling so long as it hisses, clanks, chuffs has an orange fire and smells nice.
     
  17. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    The point was more about getting the loco built to begin with, will there be enought support if its future is largely away from home and no carrot of mainline exploits? I don't doubt it would be a very popular visitor at all railways, as 6023 has been.
     
  18. Charles Parry

    Charles Parry Member

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    An interesting thing about Didcot is that I swear in my youth a steam day would involve one locomotive* and the diesel rail car. Now it seems they try and do two locomotives in steam. On site they have two working steamers (4144 and the railmotor) so hence the hire, but really it feels like they are hiring in to increase past a level they had operated at previously and would have planned for.

    *Earl Bathurst being the regular one making an impression, particularly with the TPO drops they used to do as it had to hit 25 in the space of about 50 yards so she was thrashed mercilessly.
     
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  19. paullad1984

    paullad1984 Member

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    Personally I don't give a damn about the boiler, as long as it looks smells and sounds like a County I shall be happy. I can't wait to see her at the GCR thundering along with a full rake of coaches behind her, or even better at one of the ex gwr lines with proper gwr coaches.
     
  20. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    They could have done the same as they are probably doing with 4709; used one of the No. 1 boilers that are lying around and disguised it by the cladding. The result would still look, smell and sound like a County. To my mind a boiler of the right dimensions but working pressure significantly lower than the later setting for the Counties, and much lower than the setting for which they were designed, is just as bad (or just as good if looks, smell and sound are all you're bothered about).
     
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