West Somerset Railway General Discussion

When does 7820 arrival please.

 

Already there.

 

The only place I saw any shunting was at Watchet harbour back in the early 60s , very exciting to a 6/7/8/ year old little lad .This is when I saw the blue tractor doing it's bit , then I thought what a cop out but now I know different .

I have seen on You Tube various shunting operations that wouldn't be allowed todays H&S regime but I do wonder how many accidents took place . Of course one accident is too many but was it still operating until H&S came into play ?

 

Many years ago I used to watch the shunting in Didcot yard. What fascinated me was the way the shunter would walk alongside the rolling wagons and flick the coupling up with his pole as the rolling wagon ran into the stationary ones already in the siding so forming the train as the shunting progressed (all seemed to be loose coupled and no vac those days). Always seemed a bit dodgy to me - especially if the wagons were rolling quite quickly and the shunter had to jog alongside and flick the coupling up while, at the same time, keeping his pole etc. clear of the compressing buffers.

 

I drove construction trains for a while on phase two of the channel tunnel rail link. A lot of my time was spent waiting beside the Ford Dagenham factory. Their yard was shunted in the ‘traditional’ style with all the air drained from the wagon brakes and the screw couplings at maximum length. Lots of loose shunting took place and the shunters were wizards with a shunter’s pole. One day a pair of bogie flat wagons were to be seen hard against a set of buffers with a number of Transit vans in a jumble on the wagons, the buffers and the ground!

 

Thanks Andy,

A, to us in the 21st century absolutely terrifying, modification of the 'fly' principle was a 'slip carriage'
working on the GWR from June 1866 to 1868. The carriages were 'dropped' from a broad gauge
'express' from Windsor to Farringdon routed via the Metropolitan Railway. Carriages for
Paddington station were slipped at Westbourne Bridge; the loco and main train ran ahead to
Bishops Road station, the slipped carriages continued under their own momentum into
Paddington station; the signalman switching after the loco and main train had passed at
Westbourne Park Jct. The slipped carriages were due into Paddington three minutes
later than the main train was scheduled to stop at Bishops Road. (Consider the extra
distance to the Paddington buffer stops compared to stopping at Bishops Road, now
PDN Hammersmith and City, I think c. 20-22 chains. ie only 3 minutes extra
including the change of points !)

On another subject, re the current timetable. Yes the revised time table gives footplate and on
train crew more than 28 minutes to deal with leaving passengers, run round or go through
the train for a check, have a lunch break and prepare for departure for which thank you.
There is also the issue that shorter turnarounds (relevant when the next departure is two
hours later) leave less time for passengers to stretch their legs, purchase a gift, magazine,
drink, food etc.

There are other issues, interval departures are 'neat and tidy', first introduced (if memory
serves right by the L&SW pre WWl) but both trains (MD and BL) departing the same time
only makes sense if Williton (where the many services pass each other) is half way along the line, distance wise yes, operationally no. It is for this reason that corresponding services have
traditionally left Bishops Lydeard ten minutes after the equivalent Minehead service. ( ie
for many years MD1 started the day at Minehead at 10.15 and Bl2 at Bishops Lydeard at
10.25)

I am not sure which is the 'chicken' and which the 'egg' but before changes the present time
table allowed 15 minutes from BL to Crowcombe ( for years this has been 13 minutes, more
than adequate, even in August 2002 when small Prairies 5542 and 5553 kept time with
seven coach trains ) and then waited at Crowcombe for 5 minutes ( ie CH departure 20
minutes after BL departure, traditionally 15) Deapite this procrastination there was still an inordinately long wait at Williton for the UP train in this year's timetable.

The whole time table was full of similar nonsenses. I suspect it was implemented based
on Gala time tables, ignoring the fact that many Gala attendees mention that the Gala
time table is boring (indeed this has been acknowledged in recent years by variations
introduced on Thursdays and Fridays)

Our time table has evolved over the years but there must be severe doubts as to
whether it is 'fit for purpose' in 2018. In 1976 MD1 left Minehead for Blue Anchor (when
the Railway first opened under 'Preservation' management) at 10.15 to serve Butlins
visitors who by then had finished breakfast etc and were looking for something to
do. A short trip to BA met the 1976 requirement, present day 'Butlins Express' to
Watchet on a Wednesday recognises a market ie once a week special, not a daily
requirement. Should there be a 10.15 every day of the week now ?

I could go on. What is required ? A blank sheet of paper. Certain parameters e.g. The
actual times I suggest should be structured around being kept by a small Prairie hauling
'seven'. Frequency; based on where our passengers are. Days operation where projected revenue exceeds direct costs by a given percentage. Sensible inter station times eg WN-SR 12 or 13 minutes to departure, SR-CH arrival 8 minutes, does not make sense, 11 and 9 does.
etc, etc.

Let 2019 be the year we have a thought out, optimised workable timetable. One last thought,
I have always considered a WTT departure 2-3 minutes after the Public Time table at both
BL and MD made sense.

Michael Rowe

 

Shunting, as carried out in past times is almost a lost art. Is there anywhere where it can still be carried out with a capstan and rope, once so common at many places. Perfectly safe as long as you kept your feet clear of the rope. Tipplers generally worked on the principle that a loaded wagon would gravitate onto the the empty wagon and knock it out of the way. The transfer of momentum would halt the full wagon ready for tippling. Try telling someone today that, for the system to work it required a 22 ton vehicle to crash into a 6 ton vehicle every time.

 

I've been watching the trains on the web-cams a bit over the last few days. Yes I know it's sad and I should really get out more! Anyway I've noticed timekeeping has been pretty poor with trains being at least 30 minutes late by the end of the day in some cases. In some ways I find this strange as the timetable allows an hour and a half to get from one end of the line to the other which should certainly allow for a bit of recovery time. Can anyone shed any light on what the reasons are?

It's not an easy one trying to work something out to run a 20 mile single track line with 3 passing places at maximum capacity I know. I guess the long section between Blue Anchor and Williton is a limiting factor for a start...… I like the simplicity of the current timetable but it clearly isn't working that well so I don't know what the answer is. One thing's for certain, we don't want it slowed down any more. 90 minutes to cover 20 miles is already a snail's pace!

 

I don't believe horses have been mentioned yet as far as shunting is concerned.
http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrmm989.htm

 

Evening All

It is clear that WSR timetable may need a bit of tweeking for the 2019 season to provide connections and suitable breaks for the all day on train (and locomotives) staff.
However more pressing for the future of the WSR is the continued operation of daily services that cost more to provide than are taken in fares.

The WSR would have more cash in the bank if it ran less days and reduced costs on marginal days by use of the DMU and only one steam locomotive instead of 2 steam locomotives.

Such a move would have spin offs such as reduced coal bill, reduced servicing requirements, reduced locomotive requirements.

Running trains returning a loss in cash terms is pointless.

I realise that it might be not what the some people would like but cash is king.

Jeff Price

 

And we are now hearing rumours of ‘orange days’ bring added into the WSR programme in October and November - additional off peak days not presently in the public timetable.

It would be reassuring the hear that the financial viability of these has been properly assessed, taking both potential revenue AND likely costs into account, let alone eating away at those other vital resources such as volunteer time, opportunity for infrastructure work, ability for loco staff to concentrate on repairs and overhauls...

The WSR has made some pretty questionable decisions in recent years, let’s hope ‘orange days’ don’t turn out to be another.

Robin

 

The difficulty of course is trying to identify what services are not financially worthwhile and what services are not financially worthwhile BUT make the overall service more attractive

 

Suspected broken rail, lineside fire, heat related infrastructure issues.....20 mile railways are not the easiest of things to run especially when it's hot.

 

I would be quite surprised if there are are many days when the total fares taken (including advance bookings) are less than the marginal costs incurred - i.e. those which are avoidable by not running. The marginal infrastructure costs of running are likely to be small, and while the marginal costs of wear and tear on carriages will be greater, there can be costs from parking them up in terms of weathering and corrosion. How many staff are paid by the hour and would really be paid less if services didn't run?

I would suggest that efficient timetabling and diagramming is perhaps more important - aiming to capture the market proven by takings to be there by running more efficiently, with (if possible) reduced mileage and more efficient use of resources. This may well include more use of diesels to reduce the number of locomotives steamed, and this may even be possible and worthwhile at busier times.

However, appealing though 'running less' always seems to be to the engineers, the reality is that filling empty seats on timetabled departures adds 100% to the bottom line and any cost/service cutting must be accompanied by, or even preceeded by an effective marketing campaign to fill those empty seats.

Steven

 

During this increased fire risk period, locomotive ashpans are being emptied over locoshed pits periodically through the operating day. This necessary additional task is inevitably further compromising the already tight turnaround times at MD and BL and is therefore a likely factor contributing to any accumulated delay.

 

I feel that if you cut steam for the DMU that you will get less passengers & consequently less income, how about thoughts along the lines of smaller engines & less carriages?

DJB.

 

Or of course restore the DMU to its original condition. The SVR Class 108 is a joy to behold and I am sure attractive to the non enthusiast.

The WSR unit however is a bit of a wreck

 

Make more use of the DEPG fleet?

I dont know what the relative costs of running steam/diesel loco/DMU worked trains are - can anyone advise

 

It seems remarkable that after what, 40 odd years of operating the same length of track, a decent timetable still hasn't been pinned down. We're currently experiencing similar issues, but this is after a major extension and shakeup to the line, and I have very confidence that within 5 years or so we'll have got it down to a tee again, like we had before we extended to Broadway.

I've often wondered whether for railways that have a destination, making sure trains are intensive in the morning and late afternoon with a quiet middle of the day might be an idea. Also not being tied to the same crossing point every time *could* allow staff breaks without affecting key train services if planned carefully.

 

Depends on hire arrangements of course, but as a wet finger in the air £100 a day for a DMU and £1000 for a steam loco? Couldn't say as for diesel hauled trains, that tends to be milage based as well.