West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Not to mention any high season train on the NYMR to Whitby

 

Yes I suppose the SVR are still waiting for the novelty of Kidderminster to wear off and the NYMR likewise with Whitby... As for Broadway, yes the numbers are tailing off as we expected, down from 60% up to 50% up, hard times! Given that when the commercial department were asking for an 8th coach we hadn't got to Broadway and were tentatively hoping for an initial 20% increase I think we can safely say an 8th coach will always be needed.

Just because at the particular time you might happen to visit a railway the train isn't full doesn't mean those coaches aren't required at other points in the day. Especially in our case as we are providing a public service (I don't care what you say, I see it every day, we just are, stop saying we aren't) The first train from Cheltenham to Broadway is often over 300 people, middle of the day 100 or so, last train back to Cheltenham 250ish. If you only visited for the middle of the day you'd wonder why we were pulling so many coaches, if you turned up at Cheltenham in time for the first train you'd be wondering why we weren't pulling around more (and we do get comments about overcrowding).

 

Delusion? Why would a passenger for a station served by a "tourist" railway not travel there by rail throughout, given a reasonable connection to NR?

 

I wonder if you've ever been to North West Wales?

Had you been at Porthmadog Harbour Station this morning, you would have witnessed NGG16 #143 depart at 0940 with a 10 carriage train (9 passenger carrs plus service carr) loaded to about 85%, which I would argue is probably about the most you want for all passengers to feel comfortable without feeling like they're squashed in like sardines. The NGG16 was specifically chosen for the rebuilt Welsh Highland as one of only two classes of locomotive that could pull trains of sufficient length over the fearsome gradients of the route (the NG15 being the other). Not "chufferitis" at all - the right locomotive for the right route.

25 minutes later, Merddin Emrys departed with the 1005 service, comprising 11 carriages (10 plus service carr), again comfortably loaded to around 80% capacity. As with the NGG16, the FR Double Engine is the epitome of the right engine on the right route; the absolute master of maintaining line speed for a sustained period over steep gradients with heavy trains.

Finally, with regards to one of the other points you raise, I regularly use the Welsh Highland to get from Beddgelert to Rhyd Ddu so that I can walk the stunning Lôn Gwyrfai back to Beddgelert; is that not a railway providing a service? For comparison, I also use the Cambrian route for the exact same purpose e.g. park in Criccieth, train to Pwllheli, walk back to Criccieth.

With apologies for the thread drift away from the West Somerset...

 

How does the 7F compare with a 28XX. I remember talking to enginemen at Williton years ago who, standing on the footplate of the 7F, found the 28XX more 'user friendly'. And then regarding the recent proposed 'swap' of 3803 from the South Devon with 4561, one of the railway 'red tops' mentioned something about the tendency for the 28XX to suffer fore-and-aft surging. Are the Churchward and Collett 2-8-0s less suitable for the West Somerset than the 7Fs?

 

Good to see 53808 due back on Sunday after its big end bearing problems yesterday.

 

Personally I've never noticed much of a difference between a 28xx and a Hall or a Manor in terms of surging, certainly not at heritage line speeds. The difference between a 42xx (and I understand 56xxs too) and anything else though is stark, loosening couplings helps but you still notice the rocking, and passengers in the front coach especially do complain.

 

Interesting. Your line is easier on locomotives than the West Somerset in terms of curvature and gradients - it was planned as a main line whereas the West Somerset is a branch line on the edge of the Quantocks.

 

Indeed, and I'm sure that has an impact too, just giving my two penneth worth from what I've experienced.

 

Does the WSR ever strengthen trains - subject to whatevers on the front being able to cope? There are certainly 'spare' vehicles at Minehead

I remember in the early 80's Evening Star & 10 coaches deputizing for a DMU on a particularly busy Spring afternoon

 

[QUOTE="paulhitch, . Again, as a matter of fact, an O2 has an almost identical tractive effort to a 2MT which is no surprise as they were intended for similar work. The modern machine is longer to accommodate superheater, large cab plus water tanks with 50% greater capacity. "Modern" it is, large it is not."

O2 : boiler pressure 160psi. fire grate area 13.83 sq.ft. heating surface tubes 898 sq. ft,
fire box 89 sq. ft
Ivatt 2-6-2 tank: bp 200psi. fire grate area 17.5 sq.ft. heating surface tubes 924 sq.ft,
fire box 101 sq.ft super heater 134 sq.ft.
Allowing for 200 psi (ie higher saturation temperature let alone relatively high super heat) larger evaporation area, more efficient front end etc, the Ivatt is a 70-80 % more powerful loco than the O2.

(Do not please confuse tractive effort with power. If you reduce the diameter of the coupled wheels for instance you will increase the TE which may enable you to start a heavier train and the subsequent maximum power output will occur at a lower speed. The maximum TE will occur at the instant the coupled wheels move.)

Loco weights O2 0-4-4 tank 44 tons 16 cwt, Ivatt 2-6-2 tank 65.2 tons.

The Ivatt may not by some criteria be a 'large' loco but for sure it's a far larger piece of kit than
an O2.

A final thought. An Ivatt 2-6-2 tank on occasion in the early 1950s timed 250 ton trains on the
Oxted lines. I also timed one on the 14.30 ex Victoria in 1956 at 70 mph after Thornton Heath.
I admired the O2s and a day on the IoW in the fifties was a regular treat, made even more so
if we took the train from the Pier Head to Sandown ( or once Ventnor) and even more exciting
Newport and then Freshwater ( we returned by bus, older voices prevailed) but time a 250
ton train over the Oxted lines, I think not !

Sorry, if you are going to disagree with statements please check the facts.

Michael Rowe




PH[/QUOTE]

 

Certainly the WSR coach sets are not all in fixed rakes - they will be adjusted according to anticipated demands, eg if there are large numbers of parties booked. However, having the spare vehicles at MD is of no use if the 1025 at BL is filling rapidly before the departure! There is no siding space to keep spare coaches at BL so the answer is to suggest to passengers that they wait for the 1115 if they want a guaranteed seat, or take a coach off the 1115, and of course the time taken in doing this would inevitably delay the departure of the 1025.

 

Just wait a couple of seasons, then you will know how demand is. You are not a public service provider, people could go directly to Broadway without diversion at far lesser expense. It is a pleasure trip and none the worse for that.

Because "normals" come with the impedimenta for family holidays stowed conveniently in and on top of their cars. Enthusiasts are more likely to go to the trouble.

At one time I went regularly year after year including the time when the T.R. ran three packed train sets (indeed it once did). Have travelled on them all save for the Corris & Snowdon. Although I have not experienced crowding of this sort I take your point,(but up to a point).

PH

 

So? People can enjoy the journey without it being their sole purpose of the day! It doesn't preclude it being a public service. Even if passenger loadings do settle down, we are still currently providing a pubic service. Fancy a bet regarding passenger loadings? Whoever loses has to donate to the other's railway charity; if our passenger loadings dip lower than 25% up on before Broadway?

None of which answers the point about the SVR, NYMR and WSR - oh look we're back on topic again!

 

Never thought I’d see braunton on the loco roster, brilliant.

 

The Talyllyn 2018 high summer timetable is three sets in use.

https://www.talyllyn.co.uk/timetable

But never let the evidence get in the way of an argument.

Where's that sad trombone sound gone?

Oh, and once again your Jesus impression falls short. Small sample size and that, but for example my extended family are going for a ride on a nearby railway this summer as a family day out, however, we've worked out that it is going to be much easier for us to get the train to the line rather than mess around with several cars.

And guess what, the attraction is the train ride but also the fact that we will break our journey, go and have a nice lunch together and then finish our journey and head home, and be home in time for dinner.

 

Absolutely not. I only bet on certainties and there are no such things as certainties' Any sensible organisation budgets for a slight reduction in income for the next season.

PH

 

So do I.

Are we going to accept a longer list of railways that run the right number of carriages for their passenger loadings according to everyone else?

 

[/QUOTE]
I went back to check exactly what you did say. You used the word "large" It is not large at all, being very little heavier than a 45xx. For present day use at 25m.p.h. a 70m.p.h. capability has little relevance but the efficiency certainly does.

PH

 

I tread nervously The Churchward predeliction for 30 inch stroke cylinders does not help wrt 'fore and aft motion'. It is also unfortunate that max 'fore and aft' with the 28xx occurs at 25 mph. It was noticeable that a visiting 28xx at a past gala exhibited less 'fore and aft' than then resident no.3850. Presumably more balancing, but some horizontal forces would have been transferred to the vertical, causing more downward forces on the track. ( hammer blow )

Whilst other two cylinder locos eg Halls, large prairies etc have 30 inch stroke cylinders they also have larger diameter coupled wheels. Maximum 'fore and aft' therefore occurs at a higher speed than 25mph.

The 7F 53808 exhibits 'fore and aft' but far less than 3850. It can be used with the QB dining set for instance; although I noticed recently on the lunch time QB that the Down
journey with the 2 QB vehicles placed behind the normal six coach set was more conducive to eating/drinking than the a return behind the loco.

Michael Rowe.