'The Golden Age'

The previous comments seem to strike an echo with the RAIB on the Lydney Town accident report on another thread; the parallels are interesting and thought-provoking.

 

Thank you all for your comments on this thread, they have been most interesting.

I do believe that some railways, those that are capable of adapting and presenting themselves in the correct light relevant to the financial and national circumstances prevalent at the time, will continue to develop. I go back to my initial post:-

As I said originally, look around your railway. If you don't have this on your board or operating committee, what can you do about this? Who in the background can be encouraged to take a greater role? Who would do a good job of marketing, advertising, publicity, if the 'empire builder' that currently collects paper on thier desk can be encouraged to delegate some tasks? And these are just examples.

The preservation 'movement' (such that it is) is a resilient bunch. It still needs to show this resilience as much as ever.

 

Just one word here: APPRENTICESHIPS!!!
Need more of them, badly. If there is no one left who can turn something, mill something or weld up something, then we might be able to sell tea and cakes in a quaintly restored station, but there won't be any trains running through it!

 

How many railways are in touch with local schools and colleges? How many students would be interested in taking an apprenticeship in engineering but don't have any idea that the local preserved railway even exists, let alone needs help? If you don't put out any bait, how much can you expect to catch?

Just a thought...

 

I've been reading this thread with a great deal of interest and as an 'Enthusiast' I have some thoughts.

I think the problems you face are ones which lots of long standing organisations face, all over the country. This is that the movement will need to expand their ideas and move with the times as many other well known organisations have done (more than once if necassary).
A few which spring to mind are the Scout movements and Sea cadets etc which all need to change to 'Stay Cool' and have done by changing their uniforms, promises, badges and even the activity's (Now have Skateboarding and Street Sports) to move with modern times.

After all back in 1907 would BP have thought the scout Movement would last this long and done what it has all around the world. Similarly would Brunel have predicted the methods of transport we have today and believe his stations bridges etc would still be standing today (He definately made them to last).

The railways not being cool problem also hits these other organisationsthis is a view with the main part of the youth today , but if someone took the time to show them what was going on etc and what could be done then would that invoke an interest, as an internal view is much better than an external one. Could open days or evenings be held with a certain number of interested parties without a cost or only a minimal one to show people the work being done, if they could drive a small engine, assemble a part get a guided tour, pull a signall etc would this get an interest. As if you want younger volunteers or more of them then you need to encourage them more.
Also could you do presentaions demonstrations in schools, get school trips to railways to show them an inside view and educate people, to the work being done.

I hope my post was of some use just a view I have and if people want change they need to bring it about, also these changes won't happen if only a few want them and certainly won't happen overnight but if it becomes a thing a lot or everybody wants then it could completley change the situation and problems railways face in the future.

Also somebody who is looking at volunteering on the SDR in the near future my when my travelling details are arranged (i.e. passing my driving test) I look forward to volunteering, why though well I believe this goes back to when I was very young 8 or 9 when dad used to work in the industrial units at Staverton beside the SDR line, as a curious kid I used to watch these engines pass several times a day (Usually Errol and Sapper from what I remember but there were others) I walked across the line and into the station, where I met a very nice stationmaster who would explain whatever I asked and then used to visit every weekend or most of them whilst going to work with dad, and even had free trips with engineering crews and went in the signalbox and when I was a bit older even climbed a signal outside Totnes, this all added to my curiosity. Add to these things the fact that my mum due to my interest used to take me to the Thomas events etc when I was yonger still (Which I Still Visit To this Day) it kind of explains my interest and you need to fire thisup iside the people you want to volunteer.

Almost half the people I know love steam engines and are fascinated by them and love seeing them maybe this is what you need to capitalise on, altohugh as long as people stay facscinated there is a service to provide to recreate this as so you will always have customers.

 

The fact that heritage railways are now achieving feats once thought unimaginable in preservation (new boilers etc) is good news for the future.

The decline in volunteers will be a huge issue. There are some younger players and people are still starting work on ancient locos and ancient carriages which suggests there will be an interets for years to come, but at a lower level than we have become used to.

Ultmately the soaring cost of keeping these things running will demand that any railway has either very wealthy supporters, external funding or a very good businees base.

Railways suffered financially in the 20t Century from having so much stock (or life -expired assets) maintained purely for the summer holidays rush. How many preserved lines are trying to keep some of their coaching stock available for a handful of days use each year? That's economic suicide, particularly when those coaches are designed for 300+ mile journeys at 90+ MPH.

The debate about building new locos to serve the heritage sector would perhaps be better served by one to design and build a suitable standard gauge carriage for heritage railway use (lightweight to keep your fuel costs down, big windows, looks and feels old, decent toilets). The narrow gauge lines have been doing it for years. Trundling along in a Mark 1 at 15-25 MPH can be mind-numbing if there's not much to look at.

Those narrow gauge lines perhaps have the best hope- charm, fewer, simpler bridges and stock etc.

Some of the big standard gauge lines might even continue to grow. If you're in a holiday location or next to a major centre of population then you could be okay- steam is the key. In this modern plastic world a steam locomotive in action is an attack on the senses. For years to come people on the sands at Goodrington will look up at the steam trains and on a wet day take a closer look.

The remaining lines have got to do something special to make money and control costs. If a simple 0-6-0 type will do the job then don't run a Bulleid. Develop your other activities (footplate experience, dining etc)- but here again lies the problem of having sufficient volunteers.

 

A lot of sensible thought here, but not every one will go to see the little 0-6-0 in place of a Bullied or an A4 etc unless the 0-6-0 is blue with a face on it.
Even on the narrow gauge the enthusiast might go to look at a 0-4-0 or a Baldwin but Joe Public with wife and kids will more likely want to see a nice shiny green Garratt or a bright blue Kitson Meyer even though they probably won't know what they are
Agreed in the future there will almost certainly have to be cutbacks, but hopefully there will also be advances in technology and design to lessen the effect.
I believe there is still a long way to go yet and a lot more of Railways, Railway Heritage and Railway Preservation still to come, when one looks at the battle to save railway stock in South Africa, the achievements of the Welsh Highland Railway, the building of Tornado,the fore sight of building a brand new railway, yes it is a commercial venture, up in the Cairngorms and the commitments of people from all walks of life throughout the world to build new and to preserve the old, then maybe the dream is just beginning.
Cheers Bernard

 

This is close to something I have thought for a long time, and that is that there are simply too many preserved railways. After all, many families will not want to pay what is essentially a large amount of money when travel and food is taken into account to do what is essentially the same thing again? Not until the year after at least.
It seems new preservation projects are springing up all the time, and you must admire the effort and optimism, but for me there is always the nagging question - what does the new project offer that any other railway in a 50 mile radius doesnt have?
Surely the volunteer and employed workbase could be better used on a more established line that arguably needs it more?
Or even the spare rolling stock, locomotives etc, if many lines are facing a motive power crisis, but then there are engines rotting in fields because there isnt enough of a workforce where they are, where is the sense in that?
I know we then run into problems like station buildings and signalboxes come up for sale but theres no-where for them to go, but wouldnt one amazingly restored station in a great location with plenty to see and do be better than 10 half completed single platforms in a field?

edit - just to add I do not wish to offend anyone with the above post, and I do not want to see lines close, but I am just of the opinion that not everything can be preserved and just because there is a disused branch line somewhere doesnt mean it should be rebuilt, often they were closed because they made no money anyway!

 

Now your for it - you have said what I have been saying all along and I just got a load of abuse from the dreaming knob-jockeys of the place! [-X

Rusty sidings with a Ruston and ex-Gatex coach are not preservation at all, just a big train set for a few.

 

Hardly surprising when you use inflammatory comments like that =D>

I agree that some of these new projects will fail, I think some new lines show a lot of potential, like the Mid Norfolk, the only railway I know that purposefully runs a rake of blue/ grey coaches which appeals to me as this is preserving what I remember of BR!

 

Maybe so, but why shouldn't people play trains if they want to?

 

Maybe so, but why shouldn't people play trains if they want to?[/quote:2qjbrfwv]

Quite right!

 

My thoughts on this are that it is now 'sink or swim time' and the ones that survive the next 5-10 years will keep on going. I agree that lines/ museums do now need to connect to the local areas for example at my school me & a friend did our work experience week at the NYMR. For example the SVR, if that was a minor railway I don't think it would have survived last year in my opinion
(prepares to be shot down :-#)

 

Maybe so, but why shouldn't people play trains if they want to?[/quote:3pkyx4i7]
Good point, and yes I would like to, but it is questionable as to whether it would function as a 'tourist attraction'.
I'm ready to be shot down in flames, but it is something which has nagged me every time I see news of a new project and continuing tales of hardship for others, i.e. could not the finance and effort be better spent?
The MNR is a good example of a prosperous line, and that they dare to be different (Blue/grey carriages) shows guts. But they have chosen a good location in that their railway goes somewhere, from one town to another. I remember a trip on the Avon Valley many moons ago (I must have been around 10) when there was a run round loop only at one end, and how strange it seemed to catch a train to nowhere.

 

Good point, and yes I would like to, but it is questionable as to whether it would function as a 'tourist attraction'.
I'm ready to be shot down in flames, but it is something which has nagged me every time I see news of a new project and continuing tales of hardship for others, i.e. could not the finance and effort be better spent?
The MNR is a good example of a prosperous line, and that they dare to be different (Blue/grey carriages) shows guts. But they have chosen a good location in that their railway goes somewhere, from one town to another. I remember a trip on the Avon Valley many moons ago (I must have been around 10) when there was a run round loop only at one end, and how strange it seemed to catch a train to nowhere.[/quote:1uqojnt5]

Even with the pressures all visitor attractions are facing, I'm unfazed by new projcts coming along. If they're any good (and they will have to be VERY good!), they'll survive; if they're rubbish or even mediocre or adequate, they'll struggle and perhaps not last long. You ask whether the finance and effort could be better spent. Well, who knows, but people start and get involved with whatever specific projects interest them; people don't join 'railway preservation'. For example, I don't volunteer at my most convenient railway, I spend my time helping out at the railway whose objectives are most closely aligned with how I think a railway should be. And thank goodness such a railway exists, otherwise I'd have to go and start one! ;-)

 

Very true, and I also plan to volunteer at a railway not particularly close to me, but one I like. I know that people preserve what they like but I cant help feeling some projects are unnecessary clones?

 

I'm 33 and been surrounded by preserved railways most of my life.
I become used to a double life... one where i enjoy my hobby largely alone or with people much older than myself..

I have my day to day life as another with my friends, my age at the pub, club, bar restauarant and so on...here in Canary Wharf during the week.

They would never consider going to a preserved railway and think i'm largely mad (though they know me for so long they just tolerate my weirdisms

However I have a secret 3rd life in Poland every May.

In Wolsztyn the shed has a party, disco, light show, barbeque, many bars, outdoor tables etc etc...

on the friday before the show, there are more people my age and not just men either, and on the saturday show it's heaving with people of all ages.
The success is in the social side.. 10 years ago when I first went to Wolsztyn I was largely alone.

I often wonder why railways in the UK dont do the same. If PKP can turn an operational shed into a disco and a few vans into a parisien cafe.. why cant we convert some of the railways culture into something more..

Dinner infront of a locomotive.. an out door cafe on a platform with music and appropriate lighting during the summer... make the station the place to hang out.

I'm not saying get everyone teenage drunk... just overall more reflective of todays younger culture... make it "cool" and they will come.

I know it grates against the old's and the musuems...and the purists..

But a novel disco in a good club or a decent restaurant and venue to take a girl on a date will see £30-50 through the door per person at a cost of around £2-15 per person.. The railway becomes cool, people travel on a weekend and the whole thing becomes more healthy not just to the older volunteers but to the younger generation too.


Other industries it's about the service they offer and the attraction is largely subsidized by the other income... How much money does an aircraft make at an airshow.. but the revenue of the musuem is much greater. Preservation needs to evolve from the group of friends having fun into a business which can subsize its main objective.

It just needs some real imagination... Ive seen loads of potential on every railway ive visited where the "old" can blend with the new but it needs more than a bacon butty in a white tissue.

Take a look at any ship dockyard thats been converted into modern developments.. Canary Wharf, Bristol, Liverpool, Salford, Buenos Aires, This could be Bury Bolton Street and Rothley Goods Yard, The Bay platform..

A good restaurant will make more than a diner train any day !

We have the places.. it just needs some investment, imagination and dare I say it... a decent property developer !

 

The previous poster is quite correct - an important point of the railway preservation volunteering ethos is the social scene that surrounds it. I think that some of the narrow gauge lines in particular have tried to make familes very much part of their st up for generations now - I'm thinking of the Talllyn and Festinig here. They have of course been established longer, but the more effort lines put into this side of things the better their chances of survival, I believe.

 

ADB968008, one of the best music venues in london has a very strong railway connection- the camden roundhouse was a LMS engine shed before becoming a music venue

 

'ADB968008', you make a good point. On the same vein i see the MRC are hosting the second 'Indietracks' festival this weekend, and while not aimed at the line's own volunteers its a wonderful idea that really shows the railway off to people who wouldnt normally visit. Places like the MRC are never going to be 'cool' but trying to do unusual quirky things should really help remove some of the stigma that perhaps volunteering on a railway has, especially for the younger generation.

http://www.indietracks.co.uk/
http://www.myspace.com/indietracks

Chris