Tornado

Well if he is as qualified as you say, then his comments ought to be dismissed accordingly.

 

exactly.but I am sure I will get a lot of flack from those who seem to be in awe of him

 

Bill, I've never met anyone who is in awe of him and his main job now seems to be filling the correspondence columns of the railway press with his nonsensical views. I remember his insistence against advice that steam on third rail could only run at the dead of night as the sight of a steam loco would cause mass hari kari among the population. He is a retired railwayman who does't seem to understand that the world has changed

 

Eh? Are you sure that proposal wasn't published on April 1st somewhere?!

 

Thought it was a fly-over?

Whilst that's laudable, I still think infill electrification would be better, from Peterborough to Ely.

 

Would not mind a list of groups that match or better "one of the hardest working and most open groups", because as far as see it, they are the leaders, by a country mile.

One completed Loco, another coming together at a rapid rate, plans for own carriage rake and workshop/stabling facilities, if another group is doing a better job, I must have missed them....

 

Just a thought.......other than curiosity it's not really of any interest to forum members how/why Tornado had a failure.
10A would have taken a loco home and battened down the hatches (fair enough I say)
The A1 trust have been and are being very open and candid, they deserve our respect for that because they sure as hell were under no obligation to be so open.

 

They are good at a lot of things, but what they are most conspicuously good at is raising the cash (and contributions in kind) to pay for all the other stuff. That is what permits the rapid progress on their projects.

 

Wow, wow, wow, wow, hang on a moment. I'm not denying the amount of work that the A1 Trust puts in, I had first hand experience of it a few years ago but this doesn't make them the leaders by a country mile as you have stated. Everyone has their own opinion and rightly so and yes it was a shame what happened to Tornado but let's see what the investigation report states when it's released and its findings.

Just because other groups don't publicise their workings or arrangements for all to see or what's planned for the future, it doesn't make anyone better than the other. The proof is in the pudding on some aspects, loco reliability, how many locos are turned out on one day under that company name, and who the rail tour companies always turn to in a crisis to name just three.

I could name examples of going above and beyond the call of duty but what's the point, and I can think of three other groups that can give the A1 trust a run for their money. I hope one of those makes a triumphant return later this month, I'm clearly associated to another one and the other society has a regular contract to run a high profile train out of London on a regular basis.

So I say it once again, just because you're more open than other groups, doesn't make you the cherry on top of the bun. It's about what goes into the mixture and how it tastes that matters the most!

 

It’s not a competition, in the sense of this debate (I’m aware of the need to compete for work of course on a practical level).

This tribalism inherent in pretty much everything the human race touches has to end.

Our industry - both the tourist side of it and the commuter/freight business side of it - has a perception problem.

We do not help ourselves deciding to turn it into a competition between ourselves. We ALL have to pull together.

Just an FYI - when I said they were one of the hardest working outfits I know, that’s factual.

Every member of the trust and the operations team has multiple jobs and roles across this industry and others. That’s to theirs and our mutual advantages.

Me saying they’re hard workers doesn’t automatically mean I was also saying no one else works hard.

 

Well said. There are those involved in mainline steam, particularly, who take the view that success by one automatically has a negative implication for the other and vice versa. The industry is ultimately not big enough to sustain in the modern era without maximum collaboration and cooperation.

 

Well said the previous 2 posters. at last,an outbreak of common sense.
As a supporter of the A1 and P2 trusts,I am saddened when I read negative press about them.I actually feel part of a large family.
In a similar vein,I am disappointed when I read negative Trip Advisor comments about a railway at which I volunteer.
Everybody is entitled to their opinion,of course they are.But,as stated above,it's a kind of tribal thing.

 

I totally disagree with what you are saying about "those involved in mainline steam". Those involved have worked closely together for many years and continue to do so. The view you express comes from interested bystanders who are not involved. Across the whole field of railway preservation there is far more cooperation than people on here seem to think.

Peter

 

I agree about tribalism. Had this failure happened to another high profile loco, those on here who criticise Tornado would no doubt have got all protective over their favourite steed. As anyone who owns and operates a steam loco will tell you, a major failure like this is our worst nightmare and we take no pleasure from when it happens to others. In this case the schadenfreude exhibited by some arm chair experts is well out of order.

 

Must be me but I don't see why the trenches are being dug, apart from the predictably half empty glass toast from D'S i don't see any particular knocking of Tornado or Slagging off of the A1t here
Speculation by the curious and/or impatient is a fact of life especially in a talking shop. This incident is essentially negative for anyone with an interest in Steam on the Mainline and until such time as it's hopefully unravelled and eventually resolved it will rema in so by virtue of its uncertainty. I do agree that whatever is found out will be dealt with pragmatically, and knowledge likely to be of benefit to Loco. Owners and operators will be shared not shelved.
.

 

There are significant and lasting examples of co-operation but they are far from universal. I have also personal experience of seeing and hearing influential folk revelling in, and in some cases contributing to, the misfortune of other bodies. We all know there are certain parties that will seemingly never work together on principle, so it does nobody any favours if we pretend all in the garden is rosy, what is needed is some realism and open mindedness to tackle the challenges of the near future.

 

That’s absolutely true Peter and it is worth pointing out that the A1 Trust has been given help across the board since Tornados failure.

On the day of the incident I witnessed GBRF, Network Rail, Virgin Trains, NVR and A1 Trust employees and volunteers all coming together to resolve the situation as quickly as possible.

We are at our best when we pool together. That much is certain.

 

What exasperates me most about railways in general is when someone pervades a “them and us” attitude. We’re an industry. We are all here for similar - if not largely identical - reasons.

A former friend expressed views about preserved railways he’d worked on and other staff members. Many of his issues were self made by starting out from a point that his particular choice of railway was better or more worthy than another. He would hop from railway to railway without thinking about the perception of himself he was putting out there.

Ultimately we have a responsibility to ourselves and to each other to do the best, most cooperative job we can. You never know who you’re going to be working alongside in future, so doing the best job and being positive - obviously also being realistic and knowing when things have gone wrong and how to fix them - is the best way for us to make our industry better.

Not just perception - actually doing things better.