South Devon Railway

Lots of interesting speculation chaps but the SDR GM explains the reasoning in the latest edition of their members mag. 3803 was originally acquired for use on the P&DR in the days when DVR ran both. It was never intended to run on the SDR and is considered out of character. Remember it was designed as a freight loco and being 8 coupled is not ideal for a winding country branch. Mr Elliott asks for the members reactions to doing a deal to sell or swap 3803 and acquire one or two GW tanks so has anyone got two GW tanks they don't need!.

I think the SDR board has obviously considered this very carefully, after all as other posts have said locos out of ticket are not worth as much as something that works. It's much more sensible to put it up for sale with a respectable life left on its ticket rather than wait until an expensive overhaul is needed. As to whether anyone can afford it we'll have to wait and see but i'll bet that if they don't get any reasonable offers then they won't sell. Rumour has it the P&DR didn't get any decent tenders for 4588 which is why it hasn't been sold.

 

What condition is 4588 in?

 

Apparently she's been out of traffic for a while and needs a full overhaul. Recent overhauls of similar engines seem to have cost around £250,000. When originally restored from ex Barry condition by the DVR they cut corners by giving her all welded side tanks, if they do eventually sell it would be good to see a new owner replace them with the traditional rivetted tanks (not that I'm a rivet counter of course!)

 

4588 is complete but out of ticket for about the last 7 years. I think they will want a bit more than the £1,750 it cost to buy in 1970!!

 

So, if it would cost £250,000 to rebuild 4588, then could the SDR not do a part exchange with 3803? Any remaining cash from the sale could be put towards the collett 0-6-0 or the 14xx, as surely the pannier tanks 10 year is coming up?

 

Surely they have more than enough motive power for their needs, certainly enough in working order now. As the PDSR is more commercially minded than most I doubt they really want more working locos to look after than they actually need.

As the Prarie didn't sell for £300k, is £600k (as mentioned else where) realistic, on most preserved railways is a 28 any more use than a Praire, WSR seemed to do ok with one during the wheel interface crisis, and an overpriced £300k plus overhaul would still leave change from £600k, in fact in the off season would a 28 overkill that costs more than it earns for most lines?

Possibly a future problem, we have a relatively large number of unrestored big locos around MNs, Light pacifics etc., but are running out of places to run them, whereas smaller ex mainline locos appear to be in shorter supply.

From a demand and usefulness point of view could we find tank engines in the 2-4mt range becoming worth more than bigger locos purely down to market forces? Especially as many established smaller lines are looking to break away from the industrial tank plus mk 1s image and get the preceived credibility of an ex-mainline loco.

 

Here's an ace in the hole (so to speak), I've heard an unconfirmed rumour from a very good source from a good source involved with the PDSR, that is that an OFFER has been recently made on 4588 and 6435?? Could this be the SDR for 3803 and the old plans have returned to run 3803 there? Or is this sale to raise cash for her and is 6435 returning home to where she used to be??

All I can say is time will tell and we leave them to whatever thay are up to as if the PDSR is involved we won't know until either they leave or they arrive at the SDR or by the fact the sheds will be closed making it obvious they are hiding something, watch the space!!

 

6435 has certainly been very rare on PDSR trains this year so far.
AFAIK it's only worked the very first day of the operating season so far - 16 March.

 

It would certainly make commercial sense for the PDR to sale 6435 as its not been utilised much.

 

As well as 2-8-0 medium-heavy engines suiting the trains and distance of the PDSR, and vice versa for the pannier on the SDR?

 

Yes 6435 is slightly historically important to both lines, not as much as 4555 but I'm sure she pulled some sort of special on the SDR in the old days with 6412, such as creating a record of some sort, I'll have to see if I have a pic of it.

Also I did say it was an ace!! It should also be remembered, that just because the PDSR may or may not have had an offer on 4588 and 6435, it doesn't nessacerily mean they are going to purchase 3803, but timewill tell.

 

The SDR is an excellent line, visited there yesterday and had a very enjoyable day out. 3803 is probably far too powerful a locomotive for a line with 4-5 coach trains, if she does go it will be a shame as they're excellent engines but it will proide the SDR with the means to get a more suitable alternative. Incidentally, the last time I visited the SDR was many years ago as a child and 4588 was there then, that was when they were still running into Totnes BR.

Photos at http://ianlockyer.mysnaps.org.uk/

 

Great pics! Dumbleton looks very run down there though. Question - are there three sidings in the headshunt area at buckfastleigh? one from the main line, one from the loop, and one from the workshop?

 

No there is only two, but there is also a small stretchout of the shed I believe but doesnt link to anything so presumably just assists with shunting purposes etc

The two are usually housing the unused coahcing stock and then the engines on the left

To see look at Google Earth coordinates 50°29'2.96"N and 3°46'8.29"W and you can just about make it out. although the one on the left extends a lot further than you first think as its 136 meters long or about 446 feet as opposed to 117 meters or 384 feet on the other side

 

The third line is connected to workshop!

 

Yes but not to anything else on the other end which was what I meant, just worded wrong so I suppose it's a sort of headshunt for the shed

 

Ah so the workshop line is the one that errol and ashley are stored on at the moment?
That clears a lot up, my memory was playing tricks!

 

There are only two sidings ovr there!!

In the siding on the right if looking from 4920 (at the mo) which Errol and Ashley are stored on the line which joins to the line on the side of the shed which the diesels (i.e 20110, 20118 etc) are usually stored on.

The line out of the workshop doesn't join to anything on that end it just stops a few feet before the sidings.

Then you have the main line which goes into the siding on the left and this then goes back up to the private sheds etc.

I'm not sure about the pointwork up there but I think to get either Errol or Ashley or even lady A out now you would need to shunt everything out onto that end of the platform where the llop for running round starts as I think thats the next set of points, the next one is on the other end of the loop.

I did have a diagram I'll see if I can find it.

Also does anybody know if there used to be a truning triangle in or aroung the sidings at Buckfastleigh to turn engines (as far as I know you either need a train or to load them onto a low loader to turn them round?? I was talking to someone the other day who said they did.

 

There are three parallel lines at the North end of Buckfastleigh. From the left - the first line is parallel to the A38 and is the headshunt at the far end of the main running line. There is a siding running back off it towards the green shed (Private Loco Owners Group shed) and is the siding where rolling stock is delivered and collected when road transport is needed. The second line is the continuation of the run round loop line. The crossover from main to loop is just South of road crossing past the old North Box (the original Buckfastleigh Signal Box closed in 1972). The third of the three lines (where Errol, Ashley and Lady Angela are currently stored) is a continuation of the line out of the back of the workshop. It is a tight bend and limits the length of vehicles that can use it - nothing longer than a short wheelbase 0-6-0. It was put in to provide storage space. It had to be connected via the back of the workshop as a siding laid off the middle of the three lines would have been too short to be useful.

There has never been a turning triangle at Buckfastleigh - engines and carriages have occassionally been turned by low loader when a convenient haulier has been passing by or when a loco on hire has been deliberately unloaded the other way round to the direction in which it went!

There are two turntables awaiting installation at Buckfastleigh. The 60ft table that was obtained from Hull Botanic Gardens a couple of years back and is part of first phase of the Buckfastleigh Development Plan, and, much less well known, a small wagon turntable obtained from the Morris Cowley factory system at Oxford. This may be included in the plan for the North end layout at Buckfastleigh.