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Tornado

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Leander's Shovel, Oct 20, 2007.

  1. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Part of the magic of the loco. I was there: waiting on Kings Cross on the opposite platform watching Jeremy Clarkson look around Tornado prior to the shoot and looking interested in the front of the loco. I am seen waving, through the cab window of the loco, when Clarkson first gets on the footplate.

    I waved to them as they departed. Clarkson was on the opposite side but Graeme Bunker waved back to me from the cab. I then spent the afternoon back home studying for my then upcoming thermodynamics exam whilst reading updates on the net as to the train's progress. Very few people realised it was being filmed for Top Gear that day. I certainly didn't - until I saw Clarkson on the platform. I just knew she'd be in Kings Cross so went to have a look.

    Ten years ago next year - the years have flown by!

    I'd love them to do a rematch with Prince of Wales but perhaps that time has passed now.
     
  2. NeilL

    NeilL Well-Known Member

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    Not a bad day for daytime TV - Tornado and Michael Schumacher on Top Gear followed by The Dambusters
     
  3. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    or even against a 90mph Tornado...
     
  4. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Well-Known Member

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    Well well, I never knew that about Clarkson... ;)

    Richard.
     
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  5. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    She referring to Tornado and assuredly not Mr Clarkson! ;)
     
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  6. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I only knew that it was for Top Gear when having arrived at KGX for the train we were told that we could not see the loco because the BBC was filming. I have to say that I had to pinch myself when we pulled up at Grantham a little over an hour and a half after leaving London.

    In hindsight, the nonsense of it all was that we didn't need to go at 90 mph to do it and somehow we managed to get to Edinburgh in only eight hours including stops.
     
  7. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    I must point out the following, mind:

    So unlike normal service charters, Tornado did get some preferential treatment on the day with regards pathing.

    And that's why the 90mph speed remains significant. Had she been able to do that on that day, Tornado would have won the race easily - the extra 15mph changes the nature of the debate where pathing is concerned. I think Graeme Bunker put it best when he said it wasn't about the top speed, but the choice of paths available at those speeds.

    We have to remember that the race to the north was an incredible achievement in itself. No locomotive at the time had taken on a train single handed to Edinburgh from London since 1968 (Flying Scotsman). Tornado was running on a railway where it was not possible to do what 4472 had managed - to genuinely run non stop - due to there being no water troughs on the route.

    In reality, all things being equal, a time of six and a half hours as per the Elizabethan could have been possible, were we to still have water troughs today (thank goodness we don't - additional costs to maintain on an already packed national network).
     
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  8. jonathonag

    jonathonag Well-Known Member

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    Bear in mind that the on board representative from National Express East Coast could only make decisions of trains covered by his profession, East Coast. I believe that one of the factors that contributed to a delay in No. 60163's arrival through East Lothian and into Edinburgh was the decision by Edinburgh Signalling centre to run an as booked North Berwick - Edinburgh stopping service operated by First Scotrail, the latter of which was not involved with the Top Gear event and thus had no reason to delay their own service in favour of Tornado.

    I do believe this would contribute to a few minutes on Tornados time.
     
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  9. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    The Tyseley 'Water Guv' might have saved at least one Water Stop...
     
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  10. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    That was indeed what happened. If we had not been behind that stopper Tornado would have won the "race".

    However the whole thing was of course very artificial, purporting to be what could have happened in about 1950, when that was really true only for the steam loco and the road vehicles, not for the infrastructure that they were running on. The loco did not enjoy the benefit of troughs and the road vehicles did enjoy far better roads than had existed in 1950.
     
  11. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I'd heard about the tour the week before at one of the 6880 galas at Llangollen.

    60163 was serviced at Hornsey the day before the tour, so word got round pretty quickly at work that it was for Top Gear. Clarkson Hammond and May were there in the evening with the film crew - I'd gone home at 16.30 sadly!

    60163 was brought inside the shed for its FTR on the Friday too. I was chatting to one of the support crew about the tour. "How do you know it's for Top Gear, it's meant to be top secret!"

    I'll have to dig out the photos at some point. 60163 was furnished with a bright pink First Capital Connect headboard at one point!
     
  12. Allegheny

    Allegheny Member

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    It would have been a different outcome if it had been the WCML and the A6.:)
     
  13. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    That's exactly right. When we left Berwick, the plan was to get to Drem ahead of the North Berwick stopper that we were pathed behind into Edinburgh. Even though we were five early and Control knew where we were, they did not intervene and the path was set automatically causing us to be up the tail light of the stopper and trundling behind it into Waverley where we arrived right time. It would have been only a matter of about two minutes but that's not what the computer had in the system.
     
  14. dublo6231

    dublo6231 Member

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    In a way I’m loath to ask as it added to the drama and made great viewing but was there really a problem with one of the injectors during the trip?
     
  15. Bifur01

    Bifur01 Member

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    To be fair though, didn't the car and bike leave London 40 mins late?

    "What was not shown on the programme was problems with the bike which required considerable attention, there were two filming false starts with the car and bike leaving simultaneously, but the bike breaking leading to a third attempt. The car and bike left some 40 minutes after the departure of the steam train."

    Also, according to May in a newspaper, he arrived "No more than 10 mins before the train". So it was still pretty close, even though Tornado had a head start.
     
  16. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    Remember it being mentioned that there was considerably more footage than that shown in the program ( as is usually the case) and A1SLT were hoping to access/ publish this but nothing has come of this ? suspect the departure of Mr Clarkson might be a complication.
     
  17. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    And anyway, it was all pure theatre. So you leave London in a vehicle knowing exactly when the train will arrive in Edinburgh and you can't fix it so that the car wins? Come on now!
     
  18. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    It always amuses me in those races that they get worried about the speed of the train - it will to however fast it needs to to get to its destination on time!
     
  19. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

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    If you look at some of the filming on the roads it would appear that some of it was filmed on different days. Top Gear has always been entertainment. Would you let James May drive all the way to Edinburgh in your priceless car? I'm waiting for some footage of it heading north on a trailer.
     
  20. Eightpot

    Eightpot Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I suspect not. It seems with these type of programmes that the producers simply can't resist jazzing things up with a bit of false melodrama.
     

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