Flying Scotsman

YES - as I said earlier 4472 worked perfectly well in single chimney form during its life at Steamtown and this included its many workings over the S&C and from discussions I had with one of the firemen at the time steaming was never a problem nor was there any other difficulty working this testing route.

All this talk that it needs a double chimney (ya de da) is just "froth" from those with drab green spectacles who are looking to justify its current condition. Get real people.


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Well that would solve some gauging issues.

 

Double chimney and deflectors a safety issue hahahahaha

She cant work the mainline without them!

Stop. My sides hurt!

 

Bear in mind folks, Humorist ran with a double chimney/Kylchap in LNER pre-wars days, in apple green. Granted they had the same problems en-counted in the fifties, they eventually fitted her with Blue Peter/Tornado blinkers. So just like the Thompson B1 Boys have repainted 1264 in LNER black despite not having ran in that colour in it's short LNER days, as other members of the class ran in that livery. So I have no problems with Scotsman having a double chimney/kylchap arrangement, other than the drifting smoke problems.....

 

Not in Queensland, it wouldn't...

Tom

 

We are like the Isle of Wight of Australia!

There is a little bit of standard gauge connecting Brisbane to NSW (FS ran into Brisbane).

 

My apologies - quite right to correct me on that.

 

Why not take the deflectors and double chimney off, then have her pushed around by a diesel in LNER correct livery to stop the debate....

 

Why not have it that she is restricted to 8 coaches and given dispensation to run at 90 with only premium tickets on sale, just like in the old days when she was introduced?

 

Is that really necessary?

Being a single chimney machine doesn't make the A3 class impotent. All of them built with single blastpipes and pretty much all of them ran to the late 50s without major modification in this area, pulling heavier trains than we see today and with a generally tougher schedule.

Although my preference has always been for the BR green, double chimney and deflectors (it's how I first encountered Scotsman), who am I to deny future generations the opportunity that many of us had previously - which was to see Scotsman in apple green as 4472?

My original post, albeit tongue in cheek, has sparked off something a bit more insidious than a livery debate. We're actually questioning whether a Gresley A3 Pacific can do the job asked of it without the double chimney. Madness...

 

All a single chimney does is reduce it to about the level of a Royal Scot and two of them have had a very successful mainline career, to say it would be the end of it's ML running is nonsense

 

Totally agree. Scotsman had no issues taking 12+ coaches over the S&C back in the 80s and 90s in single chimney form. It wasn't in the same league as 46229, 71000 or 60532, but I always thought it's performances were a good match to 6201 and 46203 and like the Princesses, it looked and sounded magnificent.

I still don't think 60103 in double chimney form would compete with the aforementioned top performers, so to suggest the double chimney is required for mainline use is nonsense, it provides a modest performance enhancement. I'd be absolutely confident that a single chimney version of Scotsman would've been perfectly capable of keeping to any of the mainline schedules issued for 60103 since it's return to service.

 

Why not go the whole hog and paint a diesel to look like a second tender

 

As the instigator of fitting the double-Kylchap system and the Witte smoke deflectors, it would be interesting to have Peter Townend's views on the subject.

 

That being the case, when the loco was examined by the people from Tysley, prior to going to IRE, did they not recommend fitting of a single chimney, and ditching the deflectors?????

 

At the end of the day, for enthusiasts, it has nothing to do with performance, historical accuracy or any other endless wibble. It's all driven by personal preference, in which case, there will never be an agreement about anything. I really don't care how she is presented. The fact that an A3 is out and about for people to enjoy is good enough for me!

 

Of course the double chimney is a known quantity and it does provide a performance enhancement in the locomotive. That is not in doubt.

The question being asked is one of public profile and image. The single chimney plus LNER livery is best known. Restoring the form restores the most recognisable locomotive in the world to its most recognisable form.

If the argument for not investigating the possibility of a single chimney fitting is the idea of detuning Scotsman, then by all means lets have that debate, but let's not obfuscate the issue by claiming that the single chimney A3 Pacifics were anything less than decent locomotives.

 

I may be misremembering but I fear Mr Townend is no longer with us. I do not however recall where I read this - I may be mixing him up with Peter Grafton who has also passed.

We have lost a fair few wonderful people the last couple of years.

 

When she was introduced, she hauled much heavier trains than you are suggesting. The A4s were the ones who did the “light weight” flyers.

 

Or just put a huge Ringfield motor in the tender, a smoke generator in the smokebox, and a piece of sandpaper rubbing on an axle to make a chuffing sound?