Flying Scotsman

I think your assessment of single chimney / mainline problem is overly pessimistic but I agree with the rest of your conclusions, sadly.

 

Humm - we've been over this ground so many times anyone who thinks the only way the locomotive can operate main line is in its current double chimney form is deluded (where have I heard that "deluded" word before on NP!). I'm not going to go over old ground just read back on this very thread it's all here why a slightly de-tuned loco would still find a place.

Finally do I think the single chimney will ever return, yes I do but there will need to be funding provided from somewhere and whilst the stuck in the mud enthusiast "drab green brigade" are unlikely to ever dig deep it will probably need a "people's appeal" to bring the loco back into its well known condition and that is unlikely until it's next overhaul to be realistic.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

FS has had a great deal of money spent on it, I doubt if there will be much appetite to spend more in the near future. FS is what it is, It's performing well, be happy (and satisfied)

 

+1

 

Are we ignoring that it is also making money then?

I find it hard to fathom that we as enthusiasts on the whole (not individually) decry the funds spent on the loco but also ignore the money it brings in both for its future and the museums.

I think the NRM were sold a pup given the Meanley report but Ian Riley and Co have brought back a legend and in incredible order too.

We have the benefit of hindsight - much we would have done differently - but now surely is the time to capitalise on both the anniversary and the locomotive to make hay while the sun shines?

These opportunities rarely present themselves again on our lifetimes...

 

As something of a compromise, I think/believe there is a single blastpipe/chimney version of the Kylchap exhaust. So fit that to Flying Scotsman hopefully giving the loco the best of both worlds and allowing her to appear as 4472 with LNER on the tender and apple green paintwork. As after all that's the number/livery combination the majority of folk know/remember. A colleague at work [who is the daughter of an ex North Eastern Region railwayman] remarked surely it should be 4472......

 

A side benefit - but rarely identified - is that customers who visit heritage lines where 60103 has visited suddenly "discover" a railway on their doorstep that they had either been unaware of or had been unable /unwilling to visit and consequently visit the local line on a more regular basis - some even becoming involved as volunteers.

 

And so the same old arguments go on and on, around in circles with no end. It's currently in BR green and as close to authentic as it can be from when it was withdrawn from traffic in the 60's. That's not going to change in the foreseeable future, so no amount of moaning and whinging is going to alter that. The time for this livery/chimney/deflector debate is when she needs an overhaul at the end of the current ticket. Until then, just enjoy what we have and be happy!

 

I doubt there is anyone currently unhappy or dissatisfied but the discussion is about "what happens next?". I am sure few people would wish to see the current guise in perpetuity, with 4472 effectively consigned to the history books? I do agree though, NRM funding for a potentially costly refit is unlikely, unless the revenue returns are well exceeding budget.

 

seems I am in a minority ,but I have always thought the A3 s look best with a double chimney and blinkers . that's quite apart from being a more effective machine.

 

hardly the majority . just people over 80

 

Really..............? So Joe Public don't count. The very group who supplied the majority of the cash donated to the "Save our Scotman" and restoration funds, as well as the lottery chipping in too.

 

The future form of the loco is a perfectly reasonable topic for online discussion. It isn't "moaning and whinging" but then that is the stock accusation of those who feel unable to contribute meaningfully to the debate. If you don't like the discussion, stay out of it rather than gripe about the validity of the subject matter.
As for the timing, 2023 isn't long off and the overhaul will be 2021 most probably so any considerations requiring funding will need to begin soon.
I'll predict your reply too - "ok".

 

Why so? I'm mid forties, but the "archetypal" Flying Scotsman for me is apple green, 4472 without smoke deflectors, since that is how it was pictured in all the books I had when young (which were typically being written during its initial post-BR forays onto them mainline in the 1960s - 1980s).

Given that any change would most sensibly happen at an overhaul, how much complexity would it really be to return to single chimney form? New chimney, blast pipe, smokebox wrapper for starters, but none of those sounds huge - smokebox wrappers are practically a consumable item anyway. It's not as if people are suggesting a fundamental rebuild back to right hand drive. We know that FS performed perfectly well for many years, pre- and post-preservation in single chimney form, so I'm wondering why people seem to think a return is either impossible on performance grounds or financially unattainable.

Tom

 

Totally agree Tom, the only thing to add is that the financial aspect probably has added "complexities" due to the well publicised mismanagement and enormous costs of the most recent overhaul. NRM might be understandably "scarred" by that.

 

I'm only 55, so making me only slightly older than Tom. Apart from the short lived McAlphine - Waterman joint ownership period in the mid nineties and the current incarnation F.S. has always been through out my life, light/apple green lettered LNER Numbered 4472...........

 

Although it is now a quarter of a century (!!!) since I last saw the A3 like that, ELR Feb '93, it remains seared in my memory that way from my childhood - regular trips to Carnforth and seen hauling specials in the North West almost weekly it seemed. Happy days, shared by many contemporaries probably.

 

My views and opinion are as equally valid as yours, so I'll feel free to express them, within forum rules, whenever I wish. OK?

 

So in essence your opinion on this subject is anyone expressing hope for a change in appearance for the A3 at some point is "whinging and moaning"?
How about expressing a view on the actual points under debate? Fence too comfy?

 

The core of the debate is valid...it's the number of times it's regurgitated that I find tiresome. For the record, I adore 'Scotsman' in it's current guise, but I also loved to help clean and polish it as 4472 for you and thousands of others to enjoy at 10A in the 80's.