Back Of The Shed

I suspect that William Francis will require a great deal of work. It was quite worn out in service at Baddesley and though it has run at Bressingham the amount of work required to have it run there would not be the same as getting the machine to demonstrate its true power at maximum effort at Foxfield. And it should be remembered that preservation has come on a long way since the engine benefited from the original efforts. This engine may have 61 1/2 tons of adhesive weight and a nominal tractive effort of 24,600 lbf but the driving wheels are only 3' 4" in diameter.

So though this engine has a number of attractions the fact that it is an industrial is regrettably seen as a huge negative, it just isn't going to be as attractive to our core audience, and the wheels are another matter.

However, though it might be deemed as being pretty useless commercially by some, my own view is that it would be worth a full restoration. Back when Bellerophon was being restored at Haworth there were those who believed it to be a less than useful exercise. The locomotive proved to be rather good and has proved to be active, useful and appreciated. It occupies a niche you might say and the Garratt could occupy its own too.

It comes down to will and money. Heritage is always short of money and the more glamorous, customer attracting projects come first after safety considerations. There appears to be people with the will to restore the engine but they are probably going to have to fight very hard to get enough crumbs.

 

What's wrong with 3' 6" wheels on a line where the maximum speed is 25 mph?

 

But doesn't this tie in with what is being said in the Thomas thread. There are clearly enough punters who are willing to come out for a lot of different reasons so something like William Francis, like many other unique locos would have drawing power. There are clearly people out there who will pay premium for photo charters etc, brake van rides etc etc

William Francis would clearly be more of a high days and holidays loco than being a loco you intend to run on high mileage. Bellerophon is I think a good comparison.

I wonder if it suffers not from being an industrial but because it is at Bressingham which means it isn't really on the radar. Let's say it were at Foxfield, Tanfield, SVR, KWVR, ELR or NYMR etc it might attract more attention from enthusiasts and potential volunteers and funders. I mean, if you can across in the Engine House, Ingrow West it would stop you in your tracks.

(On the subject of the Engine House - FREE GORDON)

 

Preserved railways have tried to use industrial shunters as motive power in the past and even the best of them, arguably the Bagnall New Standard 18 with 4' 3" drivers, presented problems. So it would probably be prudent not to expect overmuch, too frequently from 3' 4" wheels on a colliery shunter. Having seen the results of working industrial shunters at higher speeds than normally expected of them I am rather cautious. I appreciate that we are only looking at 210 rpm here and depending on the use you intend to make of the restored engine you may have to look at improving the balancing and generally refining details. It depends what you want to do and what you can afford. What will the pile of crumbs stretch to?

 

I think it's more the fact it's easier to put man on the moon than get Bressingham to release a steam loco.

 

Maybe a better question would be whether that particular loco ever ran at close to 25mph in original service? Quite possibly not.

Tom

 

It seems to me that its a bit of a pity that we cant have some sort of a 'core fleet' of really historic loco's eg City of Truro, Hardwicke, Super D, Thundersley, Stirling Single etc that cant be steamed 'in rotation' and toured so everyone can have a chance to experience them?

 

The 70 odd preserved Austerities just said "hi"...!

 

You could collect really important locos and maybe call them something catchy like 'the national collection'... but more seriously, isn't the tension that some locos are more valuable as unsteamed historical artifacts/records than they would be rebuilt from the ground up and chuffing around the country.

But I think the idea would require some joined up long term thinking from the NRM, which isn't really something it is well known for.

Shhhh, you'll be giving Didcot ideas.

 

Some of the Colliery systems in the North East had quite long runs - eg the Lampton, also didnt the Stewarts & Lloyds system that the 'Uglies' were built for have a 6 mile running line between the quarry & steelworks

 

I do remember working on a 3 mile long railway on a locomotive with 3' 6" wheels, not for nothing did it gain the nickname by some of "the steam hammer" (much to the annoyance of the management) however the loco will do it and with a fairly slack timetable it will keep time, but the ride on the loco is less than Stella, and was somewhat wearing on the crews. Those wheels are going round at some speed at 25mph and with the lack of proper balancing on a shunting loco this imparts the forward and backward motion onto the train . . . . .

 

3'6" wheels at 25 mph are only rotating as fast as 6'9" wheels at 48 mph, so clearly the rotational speed in itself is not an issue, but I accept that the balancing may not be suitable for that speed.

 

Surely the riding on a 0-4-0 0-4-0 with 3’6” wheels is going to be different to a 0-4-0 with 3’6”? I am not sure anyone is imagining it doing several Whitby to Pickering or bridgenorth to Kidderminster turns on 8 in a day.

 

I

It's spelt "Lambton" as in sheep rather than "Lampton" as in light bulb. Seriously though, as you say some of the colliery systems here in the North East were quite large. To name another, [IMO the brilliantly named] South Shields, Marsden & Whitburn Colliery Railway [SSM&WCR] ran from Westoe Colliery part of the Harton Coal Company complex to Whitburn and was operated under the terms of the Light Railway Act offering a public service of sorts. The main stations at Westoe and Whitburn wouldn't have looked out of place on any branch line in the land. The National Coal Board eventually closed and lifted the line in the late sixties a tragedy. If anyone watches or has taken part in the Great North Run they'll have run the last mile or so along the coast in South Shields parallel to part of the line at the Westoe end.

 

Would love to see Green Arrow out again but it'll never happen unless the NRM changes policy. Saw it at Shildon last week. My last memory was of it accelerating away from Quorn & Woodhouse on the GCR when it was last in service. Amazing... Sadly after the Scotsman debacle the NRM won't be chucking big money at any of the loco's in their care. They had to finish Scotsman to save face but I wonder if they ever wish they'd just stuck it on a plinth like Mallard..... sadly we'll be down to one A4 when Number 9 goes to Scotland as I don't think Bittern is very high in the queue of loco overhauls for Mr Hoskins... I think his next pet project is Blue Peter

 

Blue Peter is currently being overhauled and she probably back in service next year or the year after. So hopefully it won't to long until Bittern's overhaul starts and Mallard unlikely to be overhauled. If he NRM was overhaul another Pacific it would be probably Duchess of Hamilton and the A1 trust will be building a V4. So Green Arrow would have less reasons to be overhauled and I feel the next NRM loco to be overhauled could the Q1 C1. As it spent years running on the Bluebell in 70s, 80s and 90s. As it went back to the NRM at York as Bluebell had no space to overhaul it and so when the Bluebell is more happy with their home fleet. The NRM could allow the Bluebell to overhaul it again.

 

It depends very much on the purpose of the design and the age of the same. According to the AAR 504rpm recommendation/rule 3' 4" drivers are suitable for a little under 60 mph and Austerities accordingly a little over 76 mph. Now if you wish to try to exceed 70 mph with an Austerity please feel free to do so providing you can cover all the financial ramifications. 110 mph has been achieved with 70" diameter driving wheels but we are talking about a machine designed for a very different purpose.

Sorry for the initial mistake with the wheel diameter of William Francis. I misread things.

 

A couple to add to the list if I may, both at bury on the east lancs railway:

GWR 7200 class 7229 - Did hear a while ago that an overhaul has been started on this but I haven't heard anything in a while about it. Should fit in well at the ELR as they've had GWR tanks before & they've always been well liked by crews & the public alike.

3F 47324 - Not sure if this is being overhauled atm or if it's waiting on time & space. Hasn't run for at least 6yrs but has usually performed very well all year round.

Also there doesn't appear to have been much news recently on 71000 duke of gloucester. This has been sorely missed by a good few people. Can't wait to have it back again eventually, anyone got a progress update please?

 

Of all the ongoing restoration projects, no. 71000 "Duke of Glouchester" is the one I`m looking most forward to see completed.

Why not join the BR class 8 Steam Locomotive Trust and support the restoration of no. 71000 and you will simultaneous get regulary news from the restoration.

regards,
Knut