Wartime Re-enactments, ex-Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends - Time to say "Goodbye"?

To me the question is "How many German soldiers would you have seen wandering around a British station in the early 1940's?" Simple answer - none. So why do they turn up for these events? Whatever your feelings about them they are just not appropriate in whatever uniform they are wearing.

 

They’re about as appropriate as a Standard 5 and BR Mk.1 stock but I don’t see people calling for those to be banned from such events.

 

Maybe a German refugee on their way to be interned?

Browning’s ‘Ordinary Men’ which is all about people were were not paid up members of the Nazi party but who were active participants in the Holocaust. Current research shows that what Browning found was far from an outlier, we can add Jan Gross’s ‘neighbours’ to the list, Dumitru or any number of studies of the Holocaust at a local level, and we can caveat this with Prazmowska’s point that there is huge variation in action and behaviour at a local level and that a monolithic narrative of ‘good x, bad y’ doesn’t work.

I’m not a fan of the Holocaust memorial in Berlin being a site to tick off on the tourist trail and to take a selfie at, I found it incongruous that the Hartheim extermination centre is now a museum and educational centre and to be there in the middle of winter listening to people talk about the Holocaust at a site where people were exterminated. It is a very good museum, the talks were very interesting but...

I’m not a huge fan of the mural tours in Belfast or kitch Ostalgie, but alternatively, the museum in the former communist prison in Sighet is very good (and I encourage anyone who ever goes to Visu de Sus and Mocanita to make the journey to the museum).

It is a difficult task to portray the past where there was such violence and tbh I would say that if you can’t do it well then you shouldn’t go near it.

I am probably an outlier in this but having spoken to people who were victims of violence in war (a friend of mine was raped during the war in Bosnia), I don’t think portraying the past where there was genocide is something that should be done lightly or without deep thought, and certainly, it should not be a ‘fun weekend for all the family’.

 

There is the consideration that such events seek to consider the "What if ... ?" situation given that many politicians of the day sought a policy of appeasement. If the event seeks to "replicate" wartime scenarios then the "What if ... ?" scenario is equally worth consideration methinks.

 

Would this alternative history include a collaborating British puppet regime, deportations? Portraits of Hitler and Mosley (insert the British Petain/Quisling/Horthy/Tiso/Franco of your choice) at stations? Or a romantic vision of the past where there is no collaboration, no Holocaust on British soil and only heroic plunky British resistance (portrayed in a style out of Allo Allo)? 'What if' shouldn't be another way of saying 'it couldn't happen here'.

 

"What if .." is NOT another way of saying "it couldn't happen here" because, had those seeking appeasement been successful, then King Edward VIII would have reigned with his American Queen. The fact it didn't happen here is a matter of record that is beyond the original query of "Why should German uniforms be seen at WWII events".
In many ways many forget that the wartime event is provided as entertainment and - within responsible mores - licence is taken with historical facts to provide enjoyment. It is as realistic as the cartoon scenarios where moving objects defy gravity for a period before falling to ground; should these be banned because they provide something which can't / won't happen ?
I may be alone in my stand but I fail to see why an "entertainment" that provides escapism for one group should be banned because it offends the sensibilities of another group - especially when there is no legal reason for a ban. I am a member of one group (i.e. elderly person) offended by the drunken and rowdy behaviour of some groups that prevent me from seeking to go out at night for fear of personal injury; am I entitled to ban late night clubs to protect my safety or do I simply avoid such locations ?

Sadly this is a discussion that - like many - can go round in circles hence I feel it may be time lock this as there will be no agreement when strongly held conflicting views will seek to "fight it out" and nowt will change minds on either side.

 

No one has said they should be banned.

People have listed their reasons why dislike them and would prefer railways to find other events. Whether that is because it plays fast and loose with authenticity, or because of a broader question about whether given the horrors of war, it should be a form of entertainment.

Given the emphasis on authenticity that many railway enthusiasts have, I find it ironic that those self same people don’t bat an eyelid at mk1s, br standards etc at a war on the line weekend (but would have a heart attack if a Victorian weekend produced the same lineup).

Just like night clubs are not your bag, Thomas weekends, Peppa Pig weekends, diesel galas etc don’t appeal to everyone, but no one is saying that they should be banned.

Put simply, if your idea of fun is this then good luck to you. Not my thing so I vote with my feet and my wallet.

 

Anyone may of course choose to attend such events or not as they think fit. The SVR normally stages a demonstration 'battle' at Highley each year - the commentary explains that this is set in France after D-day, not in England. The annual attendance suggests to me that the public as a whole is happy to watch this type of display. I’ll leave this thought here:

2017 Autumn Steam Gala (4 days), 5,357 passengers, £112k income.
2017 40s weekends (4 days), 6,937 passengers, £153k income.

 

I thought Hertiage Railways was about having Fun. I found the WSR 40's weekend fun.

 

Just out of interest how does it compare with all the other special events across the year?

Tbh - staging a mock battle and calling it France after d day is the sort of thing you’d expect at a Disney theme park. if it pulls in the punters and lets the less sexy elements of running the railway get their cash then fine. If you have have no problem with something so inauthentic then I tend to think you lose any right to voice any complaints about authenticity ever,

Coincidentally, noting the earlier concern about late night violence, given how muggings and rapes went through the roof during war (over stretched police resources, blackout, mobility of populations), this alongside food shortages, packed trains, etc etc, are things we don’t re-enact, although maybe we’ll get someone to be a comedy Joe Walker Spiv as lip service and this is just bs.

War on the line maybe ‘fun’, Mary Poppins is ‘fun’ but neither are realistic or authentic portrayals of the periods they claim to be presenting. Safe, sanitised, unrealistic and inaccurate.

 

We do very packed, sometimes late, trains on our war weekend and last time we ran out of sausages on the Sunday if that's of any interest?

 

If you went the whole hog and rationed sausages for the whole weekend, cancelled loads of trains and the only food and drink was weak tea and the national loaf you'd get my vote.

Of course a realistic wartime weekend would be absolutely miserable so better for the bank balance that it is a fantasy WW2

 

By definition the Santa events are streets ahead of the other events. (31,962 pax / £515k). The other main 2017 events were Diesel Gala 4,807 pax / £105k and Spring Gala 4,537 pax / £90k;, both 3-day events rather than 4-day IIRC. ‘Family fun weekends’ and ‘Ghost Trains’ were some way behind those.

I think any staging of a 40s event is likely to have an air of Disney about it. Given the SVR’s available locos and carriages, it is impossible to stage the event without using BR locos and carriages, so as others have said it is never going to be 100% authentic. As I say, up to the individual to attend or not as they think fit.

 

I' m a bit concerned as to why anyone would want to wear any kind of German WW2 uniform except perhaps on stage/screen

I drove TY2 (DR Class 52 Kriegslok) and it gave me the creeps

 

Playing with trains and 'dressing up' I suppose are hangovers from childhood. Maybe 'heritage' lines are able to release any suppressed enthusiasm for those days.

 

Why would a steam loco give you the creeps? It’s not as though they were conscious participants in war and many of the surviving operational locos in Germany worked for DRG during WW2 so I take it German steam’s not for you.

 

I can understand where JohnofWessex is coming from. It's not so much the locomotives themselves, it is the story behind their construction that leaves me with some disquiet. Many of the 52's were built by slave labour and it is part of their history.
Having said that, I've seen and photographed 52's in a variety of countries including Turkey. (Why there were 52's and 8F's exported to Turkey during WW2 is another rarely visited corner of history.)

Cheers, Neil

 

Oh, please give it a rest; you've said more or less the exact same thing in your last N posts to this thread (not enough energy to count them all).

Many steam lines are recreating the 30s (and earlier in a few cases), 50's, etc. Are you going to complain that without treating women and 'people of colour' (or whatever the latest approved term is) like sh##, as they often were back then, all those railways are inauthentic amusement parks? (I can come up with many other examples, too, like crappy H+S; inauthentic plumbing; etc, etc..)

Worrying about inauthentic portrayals of the past is definitely a First World Problem.

Noel

 

I've got quite a few WWII history books with images of combat veterans of WWII meeting years later with their one-time opponents (both Japanese and German) - although of course some veterans don't agree with that. And many high-ranking WWII German officers served in NATO roles - alongside people who'd fought against them. So not everyone sees them all as 'utterly beyond the pale'.

If some re-enactors want to dress up as Germans, who cares? It's not that different from dressing up as knights and what-not - they caused some pain and grief back in their day, too.

It's if/when people start Nazi parties and start doing political marches, and quoting Adolf Hitler in support of their political positions, that I start worrying.

Noel

 

I recall a friend of mine got chatting to one of the German-uniform reenactors at a 40s event the other year, and was slightly worried to find that the chap did indeed, out of character, turn out to be on the extreme right politically and believe that the Nazis had been doing the right thing.

Please don't think that I am claiming all those who dress up in German uniform are real-life extremists. However, some most definitely are, and the others evidently tolerate that.