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Ferret and Dartboard

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by agecroft, Oct 16, 2018.

  1. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

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    It does rather beg the question of why BR in the late '50s felt the need to change their logo to something which was, conceptually, very similar to the existing one. Given that this was also the time when chocolate-and-cream and Southern green coach liveries reappeared, perhaps senior management was going through a reactionary phase?!

    As for the double-arrows, they are a magnificent piece of design: simple, but instantly recognisable. It is true that BR made some serious mistakes during their attempts to embrace modern design in the '60s (like the new Euston station!); but they also had some brilliant successes for which they rarely get the credit they deserve. The double arrows belong in that category.
     
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  2. Andy Williams

    Andy Williams Member

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    I think it may have had something to do with the roundel that was applied to the coaching fleet and other vehicles from 1956 onwards. Prior to this, coaches did not have any external British Railways branding. I surmise that there was a desire to standardise the use of the 'Lion Holding the Wheel' device for both locos and coaches.

    Andy
     
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  3. 73129

    73129 Part of the furniture

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    Some years ago I worked with a chap who came from Kendal. He referred to the early emblem as the Wembley Lion from the Wembley British Empire Exhibition in 1924.
     
  4. ... although simply chucking blue and yellow paint over everything that moved, with no hint of taking the different aesthetic designs into account like the variations in green liveries did, doesn't.
     
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  5. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

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    I have mixed feelings about the blue/grey era. The new livery must have looked like a breath of fresh air in 1964, but photos suggest that it began to look dull once its use became universal. (Admittedly I am too young to actually remember this!) Personally I think sectorisation, and subsequently privatisation, have made the railways much more colourful and interesting.

    It was also unfortunate that BR decided that yellow ends were neccesary...to my mind introducing yellow to any colour scheme makes it look cheap. That said, the HSTs pulled it off very well, because it was thoughtfully styled...that was another BR design success, IMO.

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  6. simon

    simon Resident of Nat Pres

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    I believe there was a lot of pressure from the unions that resulted in the yellow ends as a means of increasing visibility of on-coming trains
     
  7. MarkinDurham

    MarkinDurham Well-Known Member

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    The double arrows - aka the arrows of indecision...

    But a marketing stroke of genius, as it's still a nationally recognised symbol for a station
     
  8. 73129

    73129 Part of the furniture

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    I read somewhere BR were thinking of putting flashlights on the front of locos before settling on yellow warning panels.
     
  9. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I believe the issue was safety in general, as trains became both faster and quieter.


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  10. threelinkdave

    threelinkdave Well-Known Member

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    It is on a par with the London General circle and bar which is universally used within London for buses, underground and the overground. It even appears on taxies licenced by TFL
     
  11. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Except that the circle and bar was a genuine design classic which has grown with use, whereas the arrows of indecision would probably have disappeared were it not for the need post privatisation for a universal symbol, and they were all that was left.


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  12. simon

    simon Resident of Nat Pres

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    But without pressure from the unions it was unlikely that the change would have occurred. I can't say I have studied each railway company of the world, but I can't think of any other country where yellow fronts are required. In fact I believe I read somewhere that they are no longer compulsory in this country.
     
  13. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    They aren’t, and the new class 345 (for Crossrail) and 717 (for GN inner suburban) are being delivered with black fronts.

    I stand to correction, but don’t recall the issues of trackside safety around dieselisation being particularly a union issue. Even in the bad old days before I was a twinkle in my parents’ eyes, employers could be ethical and motivated by concern for their workers.


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  14. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    I think people tend to loose sight of the difference between railways in the UK and those abroad. In the wider world headlights of some form were used on trains for the very good reason that there was no requirement for the track to be fenced off. Here, from the very early days, it was a statutory regulation that all lines be fenced. As a result it was deemed unnecessary for a train to be seen, or to see where it was going, as it was on a protected right of way. Hence it was lit by no more than the feeblest of oil lamps. By the late '60s, after the onset of dieselisation, the need to be seen trackside became more apparent resulting in the advent of the yellow front - something that was unnecessary abroad because train headlights were already universally used and served the same purpose.

    Here endeth the history lesson

    Peter
     
  15. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

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    And indeed, it is my understanding that it is the fact that UK trains are now fitted with good headlights which has prompted the regulatory bodies to drop the "yellow fronts" rule.
     
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