West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Please, no! We need fusion not fission. We need some new faces, with appropriate experience, and with no previous WSR baggage. EDIT: well OK maybe one or two "old faces" could be a great help.

Steve

 

Its very sad. So many of the WSR community - staff, shareholders and volunteers all - must be hurting right now. All of their efforts and support put at risk, but no way of knowing yet what that might mean. Also note there has not been one single mention here so far of possible consequences beyond March. Can`t help but think the application to GWR for financial and operational support to make the proposed Taunton/BL high season link work may well be toast now. While there is much disagreement over the possible extent of the benefits of the proposed new link, it would have generated new revenue streams. Except now it may not.

 

I'm sure that everyone involved in the Railway, whether WSR Board or others who support the Railway in one way or another, mean to do their best, but people have not been pulling together in the same direction. The present economic climate and future challenges are enough to cope with, and fighting each other is a distraction that could ultimately bring down this splendid Railway. I really hope that this ORR involvement will make everyone wake up and smell the coffee.

John

 

Another paraphrased quote from HMRI yesterday: 'One of my colleagues routinely trawls the social media on a Monday to see what is happening in the heritage railway world.' You don't have to live in Somerset to realise all is not well in that part of the world. Just log in to Nat Pres.

 

True. I just hope that person is savvy enough to spot the trolls

Steve

 

I've stopped watching Eastenders because of this thread.

 

To my certain knowledge there are three other lines where many of the same underlying issues exist and are causing real and current problems - I expect that this is the tip of the iceberg. The only difference with the WSR is that their issues have been perhaps more divisive and certainly more publicly discussed. The structures of some of favourite railways are no longer fit for purpose.

 

I find that hard to believe, it would be more evident on this forum if it were the case. Clearly all is not well at Peak Rail, but peace seems to be in force at most lines.

 

And a really generous resignation letter from @ikcdab.


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I don't! If things like this were to crop up on my railway this is the last place I'd want to discuss it. No matter what the disagreement I'd want to make sure that the public face of our railway maintained friendly, and I feel fairly sure that anyone else on our railway would feel the same. But then maybe that's why we don't have problems like this in the first place, we're all on the same page about those sorts of things. Not to say we don't have disagreements or politics of course, but what railway doesn't.

 

I can't speak about the WSR as I am not involved, only been there as a visitor, but can comment a little on when the Swindon and Cricklade faced a similar ORR situation a few years ago. Then they also let us complete the Santas (but no more after), until the issues were corrected.

There was nothing physically wrong with infrastructure but it was stuff like paperwork/procedures. Regarding paperwork, it goes something like this:- They can say, ok who was the driver today ? Lets see their paperwork which should show stuff like any exams/testing/training they have done, medical stuff etc. Then okay who was the fireman ? lets see their paperwork.
Who was the guard yesterday, lets see their paperwork and so on. Obviously all this paperwork needs to be carefully organised, available and up to date and you need paper proof of stuff, like test papers, marks etc.

Then they can say, right that driver/fireman/guard etc, who passed them out as okay to do these jobs ? Lets see their paperwork that they are competent to do this ?

With ourselves I think it wasn't 100% in that some peoples were fine, but others not up to standard. One guy is an ex BR traction inspector who does some of the passing out. His was perfect so he was allowed to continue driving but others temporarily couldn't until their paperwork was up to scratch. With Track safety certificates, some (mine included) were out of date. You need to retake the test/course every 3 years and there should be results kept and it gets flagged up if they are out of date or a person hasn't done it.

In addition the other thing that they insisted needed to be implemented was to have a responsible officer who is in charge of the railway on any given running day. They now have an RO jacket and railway mobile and the idea is they are 'in charge' in case any incident occurs. It rotates around who is the RO and they can do other jobs, but need to drop that and take charge at any time.
The trouble is when you are temporarily stopped the time is open ended. They tell you what issues need to be fixed and then a lot of work needed to be done to get the things resolved (which the onus is on the railway to do) before you tell them to come back and inspect and lift the restriction. They are also busy with other railways cases too.
The management of the railway were under a lot of pressure to get it resolved and work with the ORR, but to their credit we were able to reopen at the Easter as we normally would have done so no running days were lost. It is lucky for the WSR that the situation has occurred over the winter period also, so it does give them some time to correct whatever issues have been flagged up when they wouldn't normally be running much and at least they also have some full time paid staff.

I feel a bit sorry for their new chairman especially with other key people around him resigning at a critical time, but I am sure they will be able to overcome any issues raised.

 

A couple of comments on the general topic of culture - perhaps with relevance to WSR, but possibly more so to other railways - my own experience being at another heritage railway and now some years ago.

1. A few years ago (probably more than I'd think) HMRI indicated that the heritage railway sector was a significant risk - with the prevalence of incidents far greater proportionally than any other rail sector. At that time the attended a meeting of the Heritage Railways Association and 'read the riot act' - saying that safety must be a higher priority, or action would be taken.
2. Purely on the basis of the level of traffic, we were visited reasonably regularly by HMRI (now ORR) - normally with some notice, and they always offered constructive advice. I think it is fair to say that they never failed to spot something that could be improved, and that their advice was always noted, acted on and checked up on during their next visit. I think we were lucky in that the relationship was pro-active from the railway, which meant that they understood the aspiration was to improve culture. I have no reason to believe that other railways were visited any less (in proportion to the level of activity and the resultant potential risk). We also knew that at least one of the inspectors was regularly visiting while off duty - being a human with an interest in railways.
3. After a reportable incident the inspectors from RAIB turned up in my office (within a few hours) and were , in their words 'shocked' that we already had all the staff records of those involved out on a table ready for them, together with the SMS and assessment standards. These were followed, before the second inspector turned up, by the signalling plans, together with test charts and maintenance records. When they had recovered, over a tea in the buffet, they explained that they had not yet visited a heritage railway where these were found by the end of their investigation, let alone at the start. Ten years or more have passed, but I can well believe that record keeping may still be an issue for even the best of railways.

As for WSR - from this, my immediate understanding would be that, perhaps prompted by external information and a knowledge of management change (which is itself a significant risk) ORR have made a visit and given recommendations. It may be that some form of notice has been issued, but, it sounds as if the new management have provided assurances and are being given the time and space to get things in order. What beggars belief is that some people seem to be revelling in the situation and trying to blow it up to show the railway in the worst possible light (or alternatively minimising it to indicate a lack of seriousness toward culture) - both of which are probably a far greater threat to the reputation and therefore future of the WSR. It would truly be a shame if one of the top heritage railways was brought down by its own culture - which incidentally I experienced while visiting the WSR as a visitor nearly 15 years ago (as it happens with an HMRI inspector) when we had a fascinating display of 'authentic' 1950/60s attitude of staff to management not once but in three different locations, and with three different groups of staff/volunteers who seemed to revel in causing or discovering trouble. Said inspector (now retired) commented that - if anything stops this railway it will be the attitude of some of its staff who just can't stand any management. In the light of reading this and other WSR threads in the time since I left railway work, it seems those words may have been prophetic - which is a huge shame to the many others who truly have the WSR and its best interests at heart.

I try not to comment much, but it seems a tragedy that some on WSR continue to treat it as a playground, not a jewel to be prized and treasured - and I repeat, I have no especial interest in WSR, other than someone who has visited it and who now has no more than a general interest in heritage railways.

 

What an interesting post, especially the bit quoted. I remember even before I joined this forum and was just getting into the preservation scene about 5 years ago (a pretty switched on but still only 14 year old lad!) I was aware that the WSR "was a bit funny", not really sure where I got the idea from, but not much has changed. Despite plenty of specific cases, I can't help but feel they're all symptoms of something I can't quite put my finger on, hence the need for some new faces and fresh ideas, hopefully JJP can provide some.

 

Fresh attitudes, I reckon.

Speaking of which:

So you don't seem to think that Ian's removal by a Board coup didn't also result in "bad publicity [it] engendered cannot have helped"? And you seemingly fully support that action (given your disagreement with the quoted characterization)? Different standards being applied, depending on whose ox is being gored? And I would assume from your characterization of the WSRA's action ("reprehensible") that you have a very negative view of their leadership - despite the WSR's crying need for volunteers.


So it seems that divisive and toxic internal politics is still alive and well in some corners of the WSR. Mr. Jones-Pratt clearly has a big job ahead; I hope he succeeds.

Noel

 

Quite - the HMRI/ORR gaining information from the internet dates back some years, while concern at as to the effect of internal 'politics' on safe operation dates back to the great Major Peter Olver's time.

Steven

 

I suspect a factor for the West Somerset has been that it doesn't really seem to have its own 'unofficial' internet discussion space - there is a Google Group, but I believe these can be quite 'clunky' to use and certainly not as easy or 'welcoming' (in the ease of use sense) as here.

Then there can be a number of other factors in how 'public' such things are - which can include personality of those involved, how 'tech-savvy' they are (or what contacts any of them have if the problems surface through others or other media) and how successful 'the management' are in 'eliminating' any possible 'focus of dissent'.

I also suspect that @21B may have been referring to problems likely to lead to ORR action rather than (or in addition to) 'political' issues. (I am not saying that the 'politics' won't also concern the ORR but I suspect they might say that if they see politics, they usually final that focus on the essentials has slipped if focus is instead on taking great chunks out of each other!) If that is the case, then I suspect sometimes part of the problem might even be everyone getting along almost too well so that the culture of the whole organisation is 'out of date' but no-one sees it or at least feels like raising the subject for fear of upsetting the 'happy apple cart'!

What has happened at the West Somerset should be a wake-up call for all lines to have a good look at themselves - which might, of course, be assisted by knowing a little more as to exactly what the issues are - unless, of course, ORR feel by the specific areas of problems remaining unknown, a wise Railway management will undertaken examinations of all of their operations and infrastructure and make necessary improvements if they don't know where specifically improvements have been necessary on the WSR.

Steven

 

Have to say there is some excellent and informative discussion on this thread now, long may it continue!

Regards

Matt

 

This is an excellent post. The part I have highlighted (and which @flying scotsman123 quoted) is particularly relevant and a problem I have seen elsewhere. There is much that can be said and no doubt varying contributing factors in each case.

Steven