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The Citadel: 10/11/18

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Oswald T Wistle, Oct 8, 2018.

  1. Bodorganboy

    Bodorganboy Member

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    Link to my shots of The Citadel yesterday.

    45212 and 45157 are seen on the outward run at Bamber Bridge and Helwith Bridge. On the return 45157 is seen hauling the train south through Lancaster, 45212 having come off the train at Carnforth
     
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  2. ribble

    ribble Member

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    The doubleheader at Rimington in some weak sunshine
    David Price 15A_0419.jpg
     
  3. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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  4. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    This is not a complaint but I will ask you as this is the most recent example. Why some videos are posted on NP that when you click on them tell you there are disabled by the video owner for playback on any platform other than YouTube. Not knowing how Youtube works is it because there is a revenue stream if watched through there? If so would it not be best to just post a hyperlink, which I noticed appeared when I went to reply to this message. So having found how to view it I did think it was an excellent video.
     
  5. iancawthorne

    iancawthorne Well-Known Member

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    Like many forum / social media type things, Nat Pres converts hyper links for the likes of Youtube into embeds. The embedded playback is an option for the video creator to choose. If they don't wan't their video being displayed all of the internet they aren't aware of, the disable option is there for that.
     
  6. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    Thanks for the explanation Ian.
     
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  7. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

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    The Citadel 10 November 2018 – 45212 & 45157 The Lancashire Fusilier (45407) hauling 8+POB

    After many “failed” attempts to join a trip at Bolton, I was driving the 8 miles for the first offering from Riley & sons in collaboration with WCRC (the proposed Citadel on the 8th had been cancelled). This was a day of firsts so here goes; my first trip from Bolton since the CME of 6 Sept 2014 and certainly the first from the newly reinstated platform 5. It was my first trip behind 45212, my first trip behind a black 5 north over the S&C, my first double header over the S&C (or Shap) and my first trip behind a black 5 over Shap (north or south).

    The train arrived early and I took my seat (aisle and travelling backwards) in coach D, the buffet and it was full. The guy sitting next to me went to open the window to clear the condensation and was told by the lady seated opposite that it would cause a draught and she had already “had to speak” to some other people in the carriage – what a joyous day this was going to be! Our departure time came and went, but we didn’t. The steward then explained that an inebriated man, not a booked passenger, had boarded at Man Vic and was refusing to leave and BTP had been summoned. Peter (@pjhliners) wandered up for a chat and said that the drunk was in his coach. I had a word with the steward (Nick) and he got me a seat in a regrettably empty first class coach, I was at the back of the 6th coach, table to myself and window open – the day had improved imeasurably.

    Eventually, 30L we left. 45212 was the lead engine driven by Mick Rawling, Matt Earnshaw firing and 45157 “The Lancashire Fusilier” was train engine with Ron Smith driving and Callum Titley firing. 45407 was running as 45157, a mark of respect by Ian Riley to the brave soldiers of WW1.

    The start from Bolton is a gentle 5 mile climb to beyond Horwich Parkway passed at 59. Speed built on the descent and reached a maximum around Blackrod, down through Adlington (60), Chorley (62) before we slowed approaching Euxton Jn then away and 38 across the Jn, down to 24 through Leyland as we prepared to cross to leave the WCML at Farington Jn. We crossed and climbed up the curve to Lostock Hall Jn (21) and now only 23L. It was another of Northern’s “Strike Saturdays” and so it was unlikely that we would be hindered by them. From Lostock Hall Jn the line climbs, 1/224r to Bamber Bridge (38) and beyond tightens for around 3 miles of 1/100r to the summit beyond Hoghton. The sound was wonderful as the locos accelerated to 41 under the M61, then up to 43 at Gregson Lane and just touching 44 at the summit. As we crossed Hoghton Tower Viaduct the sun was out and the golden leaves on the trees below were glinting from the overnight rain. Soon we were slowing for our Blackburn stop (21L) and quickly were away (19L). Slow through the tunnel then across Daisyfield Jn before opening up for the climb to Wilpshire, the “girls” had us up to 40 as we crossed under the A6119 but this fell to 37 as the climb ends with a short 1/73r. Steadily down the hill, we were allowed plenty of time, and we passed Clitheroe at 44 (only 8L). There was a minimum of 39 on the climb to Rimington and then a slow approach into Hellifield loop (RT), time for water.

    Peter came and joined me in the “enthusiasts’ coach”. We left ½L and threaded our way across the points at the west end of the loop, once clear we began to accelerate, by Long Preston we had reached 38/39 and just a shade under 58 at Settle Jn SB, rising to 58 beyond. At this point the locos appeared to be opened out a little more, speed fell back to a shade over 50 as we entered Settle and we were through the station at an amazing 52 (and a bit), back to 51 at Langcliffe and 50 at Stainforth Tunnel. Around Sheriff Brow Viaduct speed dropped to around 49.5 before recovering to 50.6 at Helwith Bridge. On the level beyond speed just touched 55 approaching Crag Hill Farm, 52.5 through Horton in R. We continued climbing at 52/53, slowing to 51 past Selside and then about a mile north of Selside the locos, still travelling at 50, were eased and speed was allowed to decay in preparation for the restriction at Ribblehead/Batty Moss. As we left the north end of the viaduct we began to accelerate again, reaching 41 before entering Blea Moor Tunnel – what a climb, what noise – pure enjoyment.

    The run to Appleby was steady, high 50s plenty of braking and we arrived RT and took water. Peter asked me if I would be having an ice cream, I duly obliged (blackcurrant) – I needed something to cool down after all that excitement. I will let @iancawthorne have my GPS data to post on his most excellent website, but just one stat; the 11.28 miles from Settle Jn SB to the point north of Selside where the locos were eased took 13m:01s, as near as makes no difference – 52 mph. Ok so plenty of power and a lightish train but a delight to be on board.

    We left Appleby a couple of minutes early and with speed generally in the high 50s, a generous allowance and with a clear run in we stopped in platform 3 at Carlisle (10E). A walk along to look at the locos and to thank the crews. By the time I left the station the locos and support coach had been detached and were reversing down the centre road, leaving the stock in platform 3.

    Ever a creature of habit, I made my way to the Woodrow Wilson. I was going to have fish and chips but saw on the bar that the 8oz sirloin was on offer (£5.99); I haven’t had a steak for years. It was very good, and tender but I had forgotten that a few months ago I had a couple teeth removed (big, back, bottom and together) – so it proved a longer than expected lunch. I was joined at the table by a couple of guys who had been photographing the train, one was from Church, less than a mile from Oswaldtwistle, what a coincidence. Just time for a stroll round the centre and then back to the station. Before arriving at Carlisle Nick explained that one of the dining coaches had a problem with its heating and so it had been decided to move the passengers to the empty coach but he had secured me a compartment in the first coach. This turned out to be a first class compartment to myself with a table (rear of the 2nd coach on the return) – the day got better & better.

    The locos backed on, 45212 in the lead (driver Mick Kelly and fireman Andy Simpkins) and 45157 (driver Peter Walker and fireman Matt Durkin). RT we were off with a slight slip. A couple of miles out we had a shower but at the top of the 1/131r before Wreay speed was up to 39 as the gradient eased and the “girls” warmed up speed increased to 48 at Southwaite, where it began to rain hard. Speed fell to a minimum of 45 as the gradient tightens beyond Calthwaite. On the level we reached 54 at the south end of Plumpton loop and 56 beyond and the rain had now eased but the sky to the west was black and threatening. Back down to 49 at Long Ashes then, with a couple of whistles, we shot through Penrith at 56, it must have been quite a spectacle in the fading light. Soon we were slowing and into Eden Valley loop (another first for me), a long trundle forward before a final stop. One of the locos began blowing off as we waited and it began raining again. After 7 minutes, the TP to Mcr Airport passed, another 10 the Glasgow-Euston, and another 20 the Edinburgh- Euston.

    The Eden Valley loop is not ideally situated being around a mile into the 1/125r to Shap; so no run at the bank, just shear pulling power. The light was rapidly fading as we eased away around 3L. In around half a mile (Clifton & Lowther) we were up to 22, we continued to accelerate, sure footed, the strong, crisp exhaust beats quickened imperceptibly – it was almost mesmeric. Another 4 miles and by Thrimby Grange, where the rain had stopped, we were going along very nicely at 45, this increased to 46 at the top of the 1/125r and as the gradient eases (1/142r) we reached 48 before the level, 51 on the level past Shap village finishing with 49 at the summit (6L). A measured descent with speed in the high 50s, with a nice couple of whistles we sped through Oxenholme at 58 (5L). The usual slow run into Carnforth loop where we stopped (7L). Peter wandered down to “the office” for a quick catch up.

    In the loop 45212 was detached and 47.826 was attached to the rear to boost the heating and to bring the ECS back from Man Vic (45157 was going onwards to ELR). It was raining again as we drew forward in the loop and then with a slip we left (6L). By Hest Bank we were up to 49, this had increased to 52 as we crossed the Lune and 55 as we shot through Lancaster (good crowd of watchers) we reached 62 around Lancaster University and a shade over 63 around Brock. We were 1L when we stopped in platform 6 at Preston and dropped a few seconds before we were away with another slip, the loco slipped again about a quarter mile to the south. Around Skew Bridge a cheeky DMU began to pass us (FL) on the slow line, but we had his measure as we eased away leaving him in our slipstream. 53 by Leyland, 50 at Euxton Jn and now for the climb up to Chorley; Buckshaw Parkway (46 & RT), Chorley (51 & 1E), the home run now with speeds in the mid to high 50s. We stopped in platform 3 at Bolton (4E). I just had time for one last look at the loco and found that Mick Kelly was now driving 45157 (not sure who was firing) – presumably Peter Walker had left at Carnforth and Mick took over.

    Well a very enjoyable day, lots of firsts (for me) and a terrific run up the Long Drag. The occupancy of this short train was low and I hope that Ian Riley recouped sufficient monies to allow him to remain in the market; his magnificent machines deserve some longer runs around the NW. Thanks to everyone who made the day run so well after the problems with the unwelcome guest. The train manager and stewards were WCRC’s finest and I’m sure that I will see some of them again when I go to see Santa. Good to meet with Peter who told me that Mike Hedderly was on the train (so I wouldn’t be surprised to see a log of the climb appearing in Steam Railway).

    The 1968 50th anniversary specials were somewhat spoiled by the fire risk issues; this trip had an authentic 1968 feel. 1968 was when petrol was around six bob a gallon and bitter 1/10d a pint, when Blackburn had three breweries (it now has none). The local advice to young drinkers was, “Thwaites’ for your mates, Dutton’s for gluttons and if you can sup Lion’s you can tame ‘em” – wise words!
     
  8. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    An excellent report as ever OTW.
    I see you had the stewards nightmare of someone in Standard (where most enthusiasts will be) not wanting any windows open. Glad there were some free seats but trying to keep all happy (as everyone has the right to an enjoyable day) can at times be very difficult if not impossible if the train is full. I can understand both sides and of course modern trains with no opening windows are becoming the norm for most people. Glad the trip was a good from onboard as it looked from the videos.
     
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  9. iancawthorne

    iancawthorne Well-Known Member

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    Howe & Co. complete with "bird of prey casualty" on the front of 45212...

    [​IMG]
    The Citadel
     
  10. walkerp1

    walkerp1 New Member

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  11. wcmlbls1846

    wcmlbls1846 Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
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  12. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    Great pics, vids and report. So, in sheer time terms, ignoring load, how does that run compare from Settle Jn to Blea Moor box (or tunnel south portal)? My instinct is we are in record territory at least post the singling and restrictions over Ribblehead Viaduct.
     
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  13. pjhliners

    pjhliners Member Friend

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    The Riley Fives storm Ais Gill 10 November 2018

    Two of Ian Riley’s Black Fives from Manchester Victoria to Carlisle and back were a regular and well-loved feature of the RTC Christmas / New Year programme but sadly the tradition faded away. So the Citadel, promoted by Ian and the WCRC, was a welcome return, especially in the fiftieth year since the last BR steam train. Albeit in the opposite direction up to Ais Gill, Nos 45212 and 45157 The Lancashire Fusilier echoed that occasion superbly. How sad that the paying customers only needed a nine coach formation to accommodate them, and even then there were a lot of empty seats.

    The engines looked superb as they crept down from Brewery Junction into Manchester Victoria, and they soon began to show their paces, reaching 50 at Brindle Heath and 54 at Clifton on the climb towards Bolton. Our departure from there was delayed half an hour by a sad and unticketed young man who was reluctant to leave the train, but a brisk restart saw us up to 52 at Lostock, 57 at Middle Brook and a spell in the early sixties down through Blackrod and Adlington as far as Chorley, when we made a slower job of entering and then leaving the West Coast Main Line.

    Onto the Blackburn line, the locos opened up through Bamber Bridge (37), reaching 41 as we started the climb to Hoghton, and stayed at 42 or 43 right to the summit. After the Blackburn pickup and rounding Daisyfield Junction, the Staniers sent up a magnificent exhaust, accelerating all the way from the mid twenties to a momentary 40 on the climb to Wilpshire and slackening only to 37 at the summit. We continued briskly in the 40s through Clitheroe and Gisburn, and had recovered our lost half hour on approaching Hellifield.

    But you ain’t seen nothing yet! On leaving Hellifield, the Fives switched from ‘lively’ mode to ‘bat out of hell’ mode. Our rear coaches must have been going well above the speed limit for the goods loop before they cleared it! We blasted through Long Preston at 39, Town Head at 48, Skir Beck at 56, and had to ease back from 58 to avoid breaking line speed and the locos’ speed limit at Settle Junction before hitting the bottom of the climb. But then they opened right up to attack the 1 in 100. 52 through Settle and on in the early 50s, apart from a short dip to 49 after Stainforth Tunnel. We were back at 50 by Helwith Bridge and accelerated to 55 on the following level stretch. Still at 52 through Horton in Ribblesdale and up to 54 for a short spell, we were still above 50 at Salt Lake where we shut off for a cautious approach to Ribblehead. After the viaduct we stormed up Blea Moor, entering the tunnel at 40. We whizzed along the tops in the mid fifties (apart from the 30 mph slack at Dent), and down from Ais Gill there was much use of the brakes to prevent us exceeding the limits as we headed for Appleby. After a pleasant break in the autumn sunshine we had a steady run in the high 50s right through to Carlisle.

    After a lovely sunny morning it had clouded over by our departure time, but there was nothing shady about how we left Carlisle. We were up to 26 at Upperby Junction and 39 when we first crossed the M6. It started raining but we managed 41 at Wreay, 48 at Southwaite and 56 just after Plumpton. We buzzed along in the 50s, passing Penrith at 55, until our first pathing stop at Eden Valley Junction. When released, we were back in the 40s by Thrimby and reached 53 just past Shap Old Station. We dipped into the high 40s over the last stretch to Shap Summit, passed at 49, then rollicked down the other side, within 2 mph either side of the limit all the way to Burton and Holme, where we started our extended crawl into the Carnforth loop. Here No 45212 left us for a Christmas home visit to the K&WVR, and we continued with 45407 back to Manchester with some welcome train heating and unwelcome shovage.

    We arrived back in Manchester before time at the end of a magnificent day out: just sad that so few of the usual suspects were there with us to enjoy it. Hopefully Ian Riley and WCRC will stick with the formula and give us some more great days next year.

    24 photos are at https://pjhtransportpix.zenfolio.com/p324372609

    Peter on a dry but grey autumn afternoon in Manchester

    https://pjhtransportpix.zenfolio.com
     
  14. iancawthorne

    iancawthorne Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
  15. sgthompson

    sgthompson Part of the furniture Friend

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    A mates footage of the pair.
     
  16. 46203

    46203 Member

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    _DSC0031-Edit.jpg

    Autumn in the Lower Eden Valley
     
  17. mrKnowwun

    mrKnowwun Part of the furniture

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    It's hiding in advanced options. My settings.

    Syndication
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    Most people don't realise its there (as its hiding in advance options) There is no financial reason not to allow imbedding, as it increases the hit rate, and bumps the video up the youtube "what to watch next" list, increasing your revenue
     
  18. henrywinskill

    henrywinskill Well-Known Member

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    Lovely shot Howard, fancied there myself but the return forecast was crap
     
  19. Where's Mazeppa?

    Where's Mazeppa? Member

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    I think you are probably right about that, as far as records in the preservation era/ post- viaduct singling go. I certainly hope so.

    I've looked at a handful of runs in the RPS database and the nearest pass-to-pass time I can find for the Settle Junction - Blea Moor SB section, given as 17m 47s on OTW's GPS plot of yesterday's run, was achieved on a CME outing in August 2012 with 60009 - when a twenty seconds longer elapsed time was recorded. The CME on that day was a Load 11 consist plus a Class 47 (570T all up) - so would you really want to put this on on the score-sheet anyway?

    I do hope that it won't take too long to confirm a thoroughly deserved Blue Riband accolade for the performance of the 5's over this section. Certainly enthralling to view on the YouTube clips that have appeared on this thread, and normally it would feel like a long wait to read all about it in Mike Hedderly's SR column. But on this occasion we have those magnificent write-ups from OTW and PJHL....thank you both so much for that - its nice to have eye-witness accounts of records being toppled.
     
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  20. iancawthorne

    iancawthorne Well-Known Member

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    The closest I can find is 46203. No doubt there will be others which are quicker.
    Settle Jct to Blea Moor:
    45212 & 45407 : 17 mins 47 seconds
    46203 load 12, 23rd March 1996 : 18 minutes 17 seconds
    https://settlecarlislesteam.co.uk/2018/10th-november-2018-the-citadel?compare=,955#data
     
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