The Citadel: 10/11/18

I can confirm that the forecast was spot on then..

 

Yep

 

After a disappointment at Newsholme (the sun went in and the exhaust drifted) a better shot leaving Settle, but full dull!

 

Here to help!

 

Peter, I think that other posts have answered most of the questions however Settle Jn SB to Blea Moor Tunnel S portal took 19:04.

 

Thanks David--and Ian and Mazeppa-- so maybe 5 or 6 minutes quicker than par.

I ought to do a course on statistical mechanics. I wonder what the 12 coach equivalent to the 9 coach performance would be. I reckon Princess Margaret Rose would win.

But even so that was some run and when it comes to run of the year it deserves to be in the league table along with BIL's run southbound on the CME in May, and no doubt Clan Line down to Cornwall and Tornado's 91mph on a loaded train.

 

Any ideas what's the story with the low take up on seats, seems strange as its an interesting itinerary starting from a city with D/H steam most the way? I recall it was only advertised reasonably late which could have some bearing, but are there other reasons?

 

maybe the late advertising in combination with Armistice Weekend (meaning the types of people that often go on steam railtours had other plans)

 

Re the northbound climb, 60009 with 11 on did Settle Jct pass to Blea Moor SB pass in 17'13" on 20th April 1984. My memory is vague but I assume that was with the old SLOA Pullman train, because the weight I have is 386t. On that day steam wasn't allowed into Carlisle, so the steam section for the train was Hellifield to Howe & Co Siding. This train ran on Good Friday. The engine returned south on Easter Tuesday - an altogether more sedate run, largely because the Friday train had, unsurprisingly, started a number of fires. As a matter of interest, there was also southbound steam over Ais Gill on Easter Monday, with Evening Star - those were the days!
Ian

 

Re 60009 it started fires all the way fro Settle to Ribblehead northbound and on its return journey on the Tuesday more fires up Mallerstang to Aisgill summit. A platelayers hut next to the road bridge approaching Aisgill went up in flames.

Interestingly 60009 hauled another trip northbound the following Saturday.

92220 ran northbound on Easter Saturday and South on Easter Monday without any fires

 

Was there a restriction across the viaduct at that time?

 

The research I did on the northbound record was that 60009 did this on 28th April 1984 (rather than the 20th, which ran with 60009 from Hellfield to Howe & Co). The time between Settle Jct and Blea Moor being 16 minutes 7 seconds (or possibly 10 seconds).
This page mentions it and includes some stats: http://locoperformance.tripod.com/edition08/settlecarlisle1.htm
Looking at those speeds, she was still eased at Ribblehead, so is probably still a fair comparison.

I understood it as 4 days previous, the 24th April 1984 that 60009 created several fires on the southbound run, including within Baron Wood.

1984 S&C runs detailed here: https://settlecarlislesteam.co.uk/years/1984
After 28th April, it appears a steam ban came into effect, as although there were lots of CME's advertised, it looks like none actually ran until at least the beginning of June.

This info could be wrong, as it's come from various online sources, so I'd be happy to be corrected.

Possibly a thread in it's own right, so mods please move out if appropriate.

 

I think the market is very price sensitive and this was to expensive for a lot of people.

 

That's been pointed out to me, as has been the fact that with the p-resent northern shambles I imagine a lot of potential passengers were put off by being unsure whether they could get to (and back from Victoria) by service train on Saturday.

 

No ! In fact the southbound trains did a series of runpasts over the viaduct for passengers who - presumably - detrained at Ribblehead platform. Having photographed 92220 at Ais Gill a fast drive saw me catch the last runpast at Ribblehead - those were the days of the excitement of the chase following steam. I heard that one photographer at the time claimed to have reached 10 locations during one southbound run !!

 

It will be interesting to see if the 22nd December train with Scotsman runs or will the pull of Scotsman fill the train.

 

Scotsman at Xmas = Full Train !

 

Thanks Ian, a great facility. Looking at the graphs 46203 passed Settle Jn well above the current 60 limit and was still doing over 30 across Batty Moss. Looking at the section between MP239 and MP246, 46203 averaged 46.4mph and the fives, 51.6mph. Making MANY assumptions I "calculated" that the edhp would be similar. I would be grateful if someone with more knowledge could crunch the numbers.

 

I contacted Ian Riley (via "The Works"), amongst other things, to thank him for a great day out and added that it was a shame that there weren't more passengers. Ian replied, "The decision to run this train was taken fairly late in the season, we are keen to repeat next year and if so will have tickets available for sale from this December for next November." Let's hope so, plenty of time to market it and plenty of time to save-up. I don't think that the weekend shambles that continues to be Northern Rail would have helped.

 

Which I guess if this is true makes the whole charter market highly suspect. From a standard class perspective it was only £6 more expensive I believe than the RTC annual near equivalent (£109 in January) and this seems to be the price point, although I see SD increases to £119 for their tours in 2019. Dining of course still appears less price sensitive, either due to special occasions or those spending the grey pound (and their kids inheritance!)
It is the price of some diesel tours that surprise me, which I guess just goes to show the fixed costs involved whatever the method of travel.