6201 Princess Elizabeth

the above point from mallard is a very good one, an operational princess elizabeth has a wow factor which only a very few locomotives have, and to have it displayed in a museum would not be the same.

i am 22 years old and 6201 is one of the locomotives that began my intrest in steam, and i feel that for the future of preservation an operational princess elizabeth is important as it is a special locomotive that turns heads and creates intrest where ever it goes.

i remember on the 70th anniversary of its record run i went to see it go through lockerbie which is near were i live and after it passed through many people who were"nt enthusiasts were talking about the train and how great it was to see it, and only a special locomotive like 6201 can generate what sort of intrest in the general public and especially young people, were ever it goes in the country. this intrest is vital for the future of steam, it cannot possibly have the same effect on static display.

i am extremely gratefull to the 6201 society for the chance to have seen princess elizabeth in steam and travelled behind her on the east lancashire railway, something which is remarkable in the new millenium, and something i am thankfull for.

although i fully appreciate the locomotive is a treasure which belongs to them, and they can do what they want, i would urge them if it is possible to find a solution to keep princess elizabeth running in the future, to provide people in the future with the enjoyment of seeing her in steam.
she is to good lose, and vital for creating intrest in steam locomotives for the future.

Daniel robinson

THE KWVR
40 YEARS

 

Hmmm, shame, but what can people who have no ownership rights do about such states of affairs? Its one of those facts of life that we can bleat all we like about something, but all this creates is animosity and mistrust amongst people who should be working together to maintain continuity, whether actively involved or not. At least Lizzie will still be in existence, and there is always the opportunity to overhaul her sometime in the future, regardless of cost.

On a happier note, at least I managed to "cab" Lizzie at Kidderminster when she was on the SVR. Impressive piece of kit, even for a Southern aficionado like myself!

 

hahaha, That must be the biggest 3 pages of crap I've read towards Lizzie!!!


Rich (laughing alot)

 

The Princess Royal Class are the longest steam locomotive to run on BR (except Garratts!). This must surely go some way in marketing 6201 (& 46203) to the general public.

 

As a member of a loco owning group I would defend the right of any owner to do as they see fit with their loco but I also feel that owners/owning groups have a wider duty of care. These locomotives are part of our national heritage and owners should explore all ways of keeping them working. 34081 is up for a 10 year overhaul and if we find ourselves in a position where we can't fund it then we will explore each and every way of getting her running again. Plinthing her just wouldn't be an option. Other owners may feel differently as is their right but I would have to disagree with them.

 

Again i agree with Spamcan81

And i must say 92 Squadron looked superb in a fresh coat of BR lined green at Llangolllen in 2007

I know many people came to see and ride behind her even my friends father who worked with 92 Squadron ( the planes not the trains)

I do hope you can bring 92 Squadron back to life soon as I would love to see her for a longer stay at Llangollen.

A point i would like to make is Lizzie was never an Ex Barry wreck like 92 Squadron so consider themselves lucky to aquire a complete locomotive unlike most of the Locos that left Barry

We are now having to pay what one connecting rod would have bought you a complete locomotive

 

Um.......................therefore ? The average wage when 6201 was bought from British Railways was around £7 per week !

 

I think a dose of realism is having an effect here. In replies to other threads I have implied or said that there is clearly a limit to the number of locomotives that can be kept in mainline condition dictated by the resources of fee paying public. Having a variety of locomotives helps to retain interest but the fact is that in the face of economic stringency most people will not spend money on "frivolous" activities such as mainline steam tours in favour of feeding their families and keeping themselves warm. It is possibly in the overall interest that Lizzie bows out for a while and maybe that Princess Marie Louise makes an appearance. I don't think there is room for both.

It is too self indulgent to talk about restoring this and that locomotive, at very substantial cost, without a view to the return that can be expected on the investment. Sufficient return may not mean a profit but an acceptable loss.Many,many restoration projects are doomed to substantial losses because other members of the same class are operational.

If an acceptable return cannot be envisaged then I think it is perfectly acceptable and responsible to consider " stuffing and mounting" if it done in such a manner as to preserve or conserve our heritage.

 

who is princess marie louise, i have heard that princess margaret rose will not be restored any time soon as the princess royal class locomotive trust do not have the funds. as for people not paying to go on frivolous railtours, quite a few tours have been sold out this year, and if princess elizabeth cannot generate sufficent funds something is seriously wrong somewhere. princess elizabeth would leave a massive hole, if permantly on static display.

 

That's why im arguing such a strong case to keep 6201 running as 46203 doesn't look like being returned to traffic anytime soon, from what i've heard/read it will they may just about turn out 6233 for another stint.

The Princess Royal class and 6201 in particular is too impressive and well known for it to be silent for too long.

 

Bickering aside, it begs some serious thought too. If more and more large loco's were to stop running, what would we do with them? Without proper 'mothballing' and storage then the loco is likely to continue to deteriorate over time. Long term storage requires controlled conditions, and outdoors, or even the conditions of a working loco shed are not really ideal for this. Even then, storage is perhaps not the best use of a running shed. Although there is the NRM and places such as the Engine House and the KWVR's museum building that allow loco's to be stored away from the harsh environment of the operating railway, space is always going to be at premium. Lines without this luxury may not be keen to have loco's with an apparently static future occupying space, particularly premium covered space.

Do we need to start thinking what is the best course to take. I know people on this forum do not like such 'doom mongering' and hopefully we are many years off from such things, but is it time now to start thinking what is best for locos that are not practical for regular preserved line use and whose use on the mainline is perhaps going to be less likely and too costly in the future? I cannot believe that such large loco's would be overhauled simply to haul short trains at 25mph, and really their use on preserved lines is a byproduct of mainline restorations. What should we be planning?

 

wouldn't the best way to raise a bit of money be get a 3 year preserved line extension and send it round the larger preserved lines? that would keep it in good nick, provide good storage, keep it working, and keep it in the public eye. it could still travel to galas whilst doing regular service at a railway, a couple spring to mind. pre-requisites would include facilities used to handling her and other large engines, regular (ie weekday) services and a mainline connection would help to bring it there in the first place. contenders include the midland, SVR, NYMR, ELR, as lizzie has done time at all of them, while outside chancers include the llangollen, glos-warks, mid hants, or the west somerset. as long as the deal raised some money and the railway was willing to cover maintainence during the preserved period of the ticket.

 

The matter of resources and leisure spending is something that is going to hit hard in the coming months.

The credit crunch has a long way to run yet and there WILL be casualties all over the economy.

Some of them will be restoration projects, proposed charters, and revenue figures on preserved lines.

So all this earnest hand wringing will need to be tempered with a harsh dose of realism that many on this board have never have had to experience before.

Let's hope the ride isn't too rough - but I for one wouldn't bet on it.

 

Well said Sidmouth, and maybe some of the young ones among us could offer their services as support crew as I believe most if not all of the present crew are well into their sixties and this is the main reason for turning down a lot of work.
Being away on consecutive charters for days on end takes its toll.
Also as a member could you tell us if the constitution also says that when the Society has finished with her she becomes a part of the National Collection and this was agreed with York at the time of the original purchase?
If this is true I don't see how York can now turn her down as Polisher has said.

 

Interesting point about some of the "younger ones" joining support crews. Some years ago I was involved with a main line pacific, and made my keen-ness to join the support crew well known. Trouble was, it was something of a "closed shop." Those that were on it didn't want to come off, and there didn't seem to be any encouragement to new volunteers to become part of it. Is there a similar problem with Lizzie?

 

I completely agree with what has been said here. The SVR is a prime example with a fleet of large loco's with no cover. I.e 75069 was left in the side road at bridgnorth shed with a tarpaulin over it for 3-5yrs at least. We all need somewhere for storage of engines. Just with the present day problem of housebuilders buying up land it is location near railways!

 

Having joined the support crew of a main line engine just over two years ago and said engine becoming a big part of my life, I can understand the feelings of the people involved towards "outsiders" coming in.
Maybe I was lucky that I was given to understand that I would have to serve an "apprenticeship" as a cleaner and then do a few trips as an "observer" before I was let loose on the nuts&bolts of servicing an engine on the mainline.
Being in my sixties already, I know the work gets harder all the time.
As in many other walks of life we need to understand that without encouragement the young people will soon lose interest
and move on to something else. And we can't afford to lose young people who are willing to get "down and dirty" for no financial reward.

 

Only a small minority of the support crew are in there sixties, If we looks in our sixites that is the tiredness of a 18 hour trip lol.

And I'm no 60 year old!!! -38 years lol!!!

what one has to remember we have FULL time jobs and Lizzie is our hobby!!! We do it for the love and enjoyment of ourselves and of others.

I think that is fair comment.


Rich

 

Er, what....? Which is why the SVR has just opened the Engine House putting its out of traffic engines under cover. I think that you need to chose a better 'prime example'. 75069 hasn't gone in because a start is to be made stripping it down once 43106 is finished.

I agree with the 2nd part of your post though.

 

IMHO loco owners who run their locos exclusively/mostly on the main line miss out on valuable income from not making more use of heritage railway running.