West Somerset Railway General Discussion

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I see on WSR that £50k has been pledged to keep 4110 on the line. I really hope they make it, having a single purpose and the fact that it is WSR footplate & shed staff gives it a rallying point.

 

Hello Everyone,
I am still alive and kicking, as it were. I must thank Yorkshireman for reporting my demise but I never handed in my ID and am therefore technically still a volunteer.

You have all probably seen the news about 4110. As I was the moderator of the Facebook 4110 Group pages and stepped down I have been reinstated and will be helping to raise the rest of the money to keep 4110 on the WSR.
Now who wants to help. We need to raise a significant amount of money (iro £50K) by mid January to buy the loco. The team are beavering away to create and register the best form of entity to hold the loco.
At this time we are only asking for pledges. All amounts are most welcome and need to be pledged to Chris Ruddick at gwr4110@gmail.com. Please remember this is a pledge and no money will be transferred.
As soon as the target is achieved the new 'company' will be set up and you will receive the relevant paperwork to make your donation.
Together we can save this relevant locomotive which will give the WSR at least one ex 83B loco for its roster. The Facebook page is now public and can be accessed here https://www.facebook.com/groups/2109799522599000/?ref=bookmarks
Regards
Ken D

 

It's welcome that there have been significant pledges so quickly. But why, assuming the money can be raised, does it require a new company or entity? Wouldn't it be administratively simpler to channel donations through the WSRA - which is, after all, the support body for the West Somerset Railway? The legal structure is already set up; there would be minimal additional administrative overhead (whereas a new company will require registration, annual audit and so on - all essentially non productive overheads that consume funds). The charity can create a ring-fenced fund to ensure donations made towards 4110 can only be used for that purpose. As a charity, it could attract gift aid on the donations, reducing the target needed or providing a welcome kick start to the overhaul costs.

As I say, it is welcome to see pledges being made. But surely the last thing the WSR family needs is yet another jumble of letters in the alphabet soup. You have a support group for the railway - why not use it for what it is designed for?

Tom

 

I got the impression that the group would be loco owners in 4110 in their own right, as are others who hire out locos, so I am not sure why they would need - or maybe want - to be involved with the WSRA. As the WSRA has a track record in legal fee spending some might be reluctant to become involved.

 

Tom makes good points. I qualified as a Guard in Dec 1988 age 19: it was only a full year later after a full day of shunting, numerous buckeye coupling, shunting unfitted vehicles (handbrake on for the loco to push against the brake) that I felt I’d arrived as a Guard. On the Avon Valley when I was Ops Manager in the 1990s, we would studiously plan to avoid using new Guards on their own for big shunts, putting them instead with an experienced mentor to gain further experience. Sorry back on thread now!

 

I can only apologise for misunderstanding what faol told me and am delighted to see he still shows signs of life. The response has been astonishing but a very well thought out plan needs to be formulated to maximise the funds and minimise taxes. Saving the locomis only the first step. A coherent and structured plan for the restoration comes next. Then a plan for how the loco is used need agreeing..

 

Wrong way up.

Because enough of the right folk were reluctant to be involved, the WSRA fell into the hands of those who caused the mess that led to excessive involvement with the legal profession.

Fixed now, and on the long climb back to sense - as is the whole Railway.

Much to do.

Robin

 

Are you saying that the legal processes have ended - and thus there will be no further action regarding the sale of the shares in 4160?

 

I have nothing to add to the previous statements made on this subject by the Trustees. There is no change to the WSRA’s approach.

Robin

 

It looks like you have to join Facebook to see this page. Once the restoration of 4110 gets underway it would be better if a proper Blog could be set up away from Facebook, see the standard of the GWSR blogs for reference.

 

Has it ever been public announced how much WSR paid for 4110?

 

Good Morning and a Very Happy Christmas. the WSR Mech Eng FB page has just released the following statement which will hopefully answer a few questions.

So far we have concentrated on securing the ownership of the locomotive to avoid it being lost. It will be for those people who have invested their money into it to decide the way forward following purchase from the WSR plc.
What are the M and A going to look like?
We have a process ready in place to form a private limited company once we have sufficient interest to cover the purchase cost. The M&A’s (rules of the company) will reflect the fundamental wish that 4110 will be a long term locomotive for the West Somerset Railway. We will incorporate sections to avoid loss of control and we have already discussed limiting individual share holdings to a 20% level. We will be seeking advice and best practice from similar locomotive owning groups and the Heritage Railway Association to assist us.
Has the PLC committed to a hire agreement?
No but we do have a provisional offer for the locomotive to remain on the WSR on a 6 month rolling notice basis. It would be unreasonable to expect the WSR plc to enter into an open-ended hire agreement at this stage.
Can we set up further monthly payments afterwards to support overhaul?
This will be for the shareholders of the new private limited company to decide. It certainly is one to consider, especially if pressing on with full restoration is the agreed future. It is not an option as a means of funding the immediate purchase due to the time available.
How is it going?
We are making good progress and reached 50% of the required funds in the first 48 hours. The next 50% will be harder and we know that we will need all of the support and good will that people are able to offer. If you have not already done so please email Chris Ruddick on gwr4110@gmail.com with your contact details and the value of your proposed contribution.

 

You should be able to see it as it is now public, however it wasn't earlier. Please try refreshing your cache.

 

Also here is the official words on some of the questions raised about 4110.

4110 RESCUE,response to questions raised.
There have been a number of questions raised by people who have already, or might consider, pledging money towards the proposed plan to secure 4110 for future use on the West Somerset Railway.
We are aware of a few given facts that we have no control over: -
1. We understand that the Board of Directors have already agreed to sell the locomotive at the earliest opportunity.
2. Offer(s) in the region of £100,000 are already on the table from external purchasers. If accepted the locomotive will no longer be available for use on the WSR in the future, except at normal commercial hire rates.
3. The Board of Directors need to raise working capital, they have firmly expressed to us a commitment to dispose of the locomotive in January 2019.
4. We have no option to extend the timescale for negotiations.
5. We have no option to negotiate the asking price of £100,000.
6. We have no option to negotiate the payment terms.
7. VAT will have to be paid on the asking price. Registration for VAT will overcome this
problem.
The following details the typical questions we have received. Why not purchase through the WSRA?
The WSRA are aware of our ambitions and we hope that they may yet be able to offer some form of assistance in the future. This is a significant sum of money for which they would probably have to agree expenditure at a Trustee’s meeting, and even circulate the membership. Timescale does not permit this delay.
We have already discussed with a representative of the Association the continued presence of 4110 within the locomotive Restoration Fund and have received positive feedback.
Why not establish as a charity?
Establishing as a charity would maximize income, but with only 3 weeks available to us the administration would probably prove too much within the available time. In addition it would restrict the options available to us in the future. Possible options that have already been suggested include.
• Restoring the locomotive to working order and hire to the WSR plc.
• Sell the locomotive un-restored at a later date to the WSRA.
• Sell the locomotive un-restored at a later date back to the WSR plc once the current issues have been resolved.
• There will be other options that have not yet been raised or discussed, evolving into a charity may well be one to consider.

 

I think it will be best to get people to do a standing order even when the engine is running as if you get 100 people doing this with an average of £10 a month and over the ten year ticket this will be £120 k on top of the hire fees to help pay for the next 10 year ticket costs. The more money you can get into the bank the quicker it can come out again as there will be less money needed to be raised when the ticket runes out.

 

I assume that this is the correct page as no else has provided a link.
Also to add I will not be using any Facebook link myself.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/137897200024016/

With reference to post 15253
In your statement above, can you explain what M and A is.
It seems that everyone on the WSR likes to talk in abbreviations that no one else can understand.
I also assume that the piece is about loco 4110 as until the last line in an email address it does not get mentioned.

Otherwise good to hear progress is being made.

 

Memorandum and Articles of Association - basically the rules governing what a Limited Company can, and cannot, do.

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Thank you. My thoughts had gone to mergers & acquisitions, which was not comforting in view of recent WSR history.


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Means and Aims was another or possibly Marmalade or Apricot jam.
Thanks for the reply.