6201 Princess Elizabeth

,what aload of tosh from most of you, lizzie is not rotting away,she is waitng patiently for her boiler inspection as she would at bury albeit under cover , lizzie will not be outsid for the winter months. ihave come in for a lot of stick on this forum all of it unjustified. ihave known roy kerryfor along time well before before we joined lizzie, i have had afew run ins with roy but never questioned his skills as anengineer lizzies present condition is testament to his leadership make no mistake his decision has left the the society so much poorer, and adifficult time ahead ,ihave never hidden the fact iwanted liz at crewe so much easier to operate out of crewe ,but iam one voice and have no say in6201 commitee and as trustee have say in what goes on at heritage ccentre ,bury has agreat gang of blokes and ive made many friends there,however getting on and off to do mainline trips is anightmare. only roy knows why he really resigned,both he and simon will br greatly missed , one of roy mottoes the engine comes first , he has given very little thougt to the engine by his resignation anbd ihate to say for ,once has not got his own way and made a very selfish descision, these are my own views and nothing todo with the soceity in general . just to finish e.l.r. said they only knew half an hour before liz was due at bury ,strange the commitee made the decision two weeks before ,tfe support crew will carry on indeed we will be working on lizzie on saturdy

 

Just about says it all about his comitment dont it!, an when I get a spell check, i'll email it to cabman!

 

Whats the score with 46203??

Don't want to go off topic but PMR never seems to get a mention?

 

Colin

As you choose to call Roy ''very selfish'' in an open forum where he has no ready avenue of reply, I feel that I must respond!

I feel that his respect for 46201 is so profound, that the committee's staggering decision to return the loco to Crewe rather that Bury, against his wishes, as the engineer, wishing to carry out his duties on the Loco at its engineering base have left him with no alternative.

Roy knows that he CANNOT practically carry out his duties with the facilities available at the Heritage Centre. Roy has his standards and duty of care. If the committee wish to ignor such, then Roy must take the only other option open to him...walk away from the society.

Your comment regarding the societies decision and the E.L.R.......did the society chairman relay their decision to the E.L.R. two weeks previous as you state?

Personally, I too am very disappointed that Lizzy is not back home, I have grown very attached to the loco, indeed, whilst not appreciated by some, we have always 'moved' our own engineering work around to accommodate Lizzie as and when required.

 

Edited...lol

 

Think it was a more a referance to how knackered the boiler was pre restoration than anything more recent.

While it may be true a rest for 6201 may not be a bad thing, remember a set of tubes and VAB exam apart she is a runner, what kind of madness is it when a loco in such a state can't run when elsewhere 500,000 is being spent on a Barry Wreck.

 

Poor old Sir William Stanier

All the time and effort he took to build 6201 so people can squabble over her

Shame on you all

 

''Squabble''?......we are talking real locomotives here my friend, not painted-up relics staggering about at 25 mph....please look at the broader aspect and view here?...this is a mainline loco, sidelined due to a 'commitee' decision taken by members who are not in possession of the 'big wide world' view of mainline steam operation, and it's requirements to provide a reliable and safe locomotive.

 

She would look nice in black........wouldnt she Ian ????

 

Its not even a question in this debate, grow up!...smell the coffee, some of us are talking real stuff here.............sorry to patronize, but I feel very strongly about the unfortunate situation here.

 

Sorry Ian

Just an outsider looking in....I know nothing about the issues apart from what I read on here

Its such a shame when things turn sour and it always seems to be the locomotive and its good name that seems to suffer.

I do hope differences within the owning group are ironed out asap and 6201 can continue to play her part in the mainline scene

No doubt the railway press will make somthing of it, further adding to the saga

 

It will be a great shame if scenes like this are never repeated again;

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jgds_mKzs4w

I dont really understand all the politics with this loco, im just glad to have been able to have a ride behind her on more than one occasion, both heritage railway and mainline.

 

If an engine is to thrive as a main line entity it has to be run professionally and thoroughly, always. This requires co-operation, dedication, committment, motivation and enthusiasm amongst its carers. If any of these elements wain, for whatever reason, the slippery slope beckons. Any engine can only operate whilst it has viable support and in a group context this requires leadership and a democratic but clear decision making process. In a support group, the [properly appointed] management team must make choices in a consensual manner, if one member is out of sync with the majority he or she should step aside in favour of the majority view. If a single view holds sway over a majority anarchy will prevail. The operators of 6201 owe nobody any favours outside their own group and whilst it is sad for us all that the engine may become idle only the owners can make decisions on its future. Having done quite well for 40+ years hopefully there are grounds for optimism that the current apparent split can be amicably resolved or that a positive arrangement for the long term operational future can be reached in a mature manner with the best interests of the engine at heart. As has been said many times any loco 'owner' is only ever a 'custodian' as they have a tendency to live longer than blokes, all being well.

 

Indeed but its all good and well talking about it but how many people would actully do something to help with her ?
I know i would and perhaps crew isnt the right place what about the west shed at butterly?

 

What about leaving it to the people that have done such a good job for the last 40 years!!!
I for one have no doubt that they will do what they think is best,and so far history has proven them to be competent and sucsessful.
Princess Elizabeth with the PELS has faired much better then some i can think of.
Think of some loco's with big named or big monied owners that will have to run a long way before they catch the old girl up.
The Melter

 

Your influence would no doubt be much greater if you learned some basic grammar. What on earth is that statement supposed to mean? Coherence, man, coherence!

 

Johnny, you are being too hard on Cabman. Yes, it's hard to read his post, but there's substantial information in it and it moves the discussion forward. It's not incoherant teenage drivvel, but written by someone more comfortable speaking than writing, and composed with not a little effort, I'd guess.

So what has Cabman added our knowledge? He says that Lizzie "is waiting patiently for" the 6-monthly boiler inspection to happen at Crewe - maybe not as certain as saying "it will definitely happen next Thursday", but rather more optimistic than some previous posters have assumed. We also learn that he is a trustee at Crewe but not on the 6201 committee, and therefore not directly involved in making the decision not to move to Bury. Reading between the lines, he undoubtedly has influence with some of the committee members - but that's as it should be, I suggest. The point about the convenience of operating from Crewe rather than the ELR is also a good one, though the good folks at Bury may not think it is such a huge obstacle as all that.

What's done is done, and there's nothing to be gained by ranting about it on this forum. We are all interested in the fate of the loco, we all want to see her well looked after, and kept running if possible. Some of us are prepared to put up some cash, if there's a good prospect of her continuing her mainline career beyond next March. By the sound of it, one or two would be prepared to get their hands dirty to help make it happen. Having made our opinions, care and concern clear, maybe it's now time to step back and see what the society does next.

 

So what is needed now is for the PELS to come out into the open and tell us

1 How does one join?

2 Is it worth joining to be able to play an active part, or is it an open your wallet and shut
up kind of organisation?

There are dangers in that situation which need careful, but open management, to succeed - which hasn't happened here, and there are financial dangers in a society owning all shares; but practical strategic control must be present to avoid schisms.

At present if the loco is controlled by trustees there are questions looming as to the probity of their decisions lately.