GWSR - Cheltenham Spa and possible extensions

The actual spelling is Honeybourne. There is no money for either of your loves I regret to say, at least at the moment. How much would it cost to get the tantalizingly close 5 miles (no distance if you say it really quickly) to Honeybourne even without a physical main line connection for main line trains?

 

Blimey!! Give 'em a chance to draw breath .... Some folks want the moon on a stick!

 

I was just saying I'm not in a rush for the extention

 

Its a shame of all that money revenue after building broadway could be spent on a new extension of the G.S.W.R. Could be spent on restoring a main line connection at the honeybourne end or a station nearer to hunting butts tunnel near the recreation grounds id be willing to fundraise such a scheme toward th gswr if they were ever ambitious about it

 

Just to clarify - you’re saying that GWSR should have used the money they spent on Broadway on going to Honeybourne and putting in a mainline connection instead ?

 

But i must admit what gswr ave achieved nowdays to broadway is great 4 now and what ive mentioned in my previous message any extra schemes would be a bonus just please dont let the honeybourne broadway trackbed be lost to any future building developments.

 

No cos at the moment the money in the coffers wouldent allow an extension after spending £1.38 million they would need double of that at a wild guess, to get past broadway any extra earnings i meant. To go to honeybourne it just depends on how much per mile it would cost to get there besides the bridges that would need strengthening 1 can dream it may happen anyhow if nowt else came of it. david 56F.

 

Even the most conservative estimates of the cost to get to Honeybourne have it has over £6 million, the more pessimistic have it as £10-12 million. Before we even think about that I'd like to see a similar amount of money spent elsewhere on the line.

Capital cost isn't what bothers me most about Hoenybourne, I'm sure we could do it eventually if we really set our heart on it. The distance is an extra 5 miles though and I just don't see how we'd operate that once we open it. To maintain any kind of reasonable frequency of service we'd need an extra train out on the line every single day we operate, and I can't imagine us being able to cope with either the additional volunteers or rolling stock required. Not without having a massive increase in numbers of paid staff anyway, assuming revenue from such an extension could sustain such employment, which I doubt.

Cheltenham doesn't have this latter problem as it's a shorter extension proposal, which is why I tend to favour Cheltenham over Honeybourne. Some volunteers don't like the idea of running trains through Pittville though and there are some question marks over embankment stability on some of the brick retaining walls and around the PoW stadium - the extent of our land ownership. Plus there's a couple of major civil engineering challenges on the council owned part of the trackbed should we wish to go all the way to the mainline station. Which is why I like the proposal to swing right after Hunting Butts tunnel, cut over a few fields for 1/2 a mile or so and connect up directly with the mainline. It's certainly no less feasible than any of the other options for getting a mainline connection, which either way is overrated IMHO.

 

I think the best thing would be for them to extend to the former high street station as this would mean passengers could then walk to/from Cheltenham centre and and you would get the same effect as opening to Broadway where people are using the train to go to a destination. If you did the detour you suggested presumably that would take them well away from the town centre (ie not a destination), plus you would have to then build another interchange station with mainline trains and how many people would want to change to then go on a mainline train anyway.
What is the situation with Cheltenham council. Would they likely to be supportive of any plan to extend into Cheltenham itself ?

 

The detour option purely provides a mainline connection, no additional stations or whatever which, as you rightly pint out, would not get a lot of patronage! As with most of the stations our our line, High street halt isn't particularly ideally placed for the high street anyway, and I don't really envisage it providing the same sort of service that it does at Broadway. Lots of people in Cheltenham like the idea of a day out at Broadway for pleasure, and taking a steam train is an additional pleasure in that day out, hence we've done so well out of it. Most of the people that go to Cheltenham town centre are already in Cheltenham and I just don't see them taking a train when they could take a bus which would be quicker, cheaper, and actually pick people up and drop them off where they want. We'd essentially be replicating the Cheltenham racecourse park and ride, but less efficiently.

I do quite like the idea of extending to Pittville Park though, the amount of young families I see there on a sunny day is amazing, I feel sure that many could be tempted to at least come and look at the steam train whilst they're there and then later plan a day on the trains, or be tempted with just a short journey along part of the line. I feel like this would be a more likely source of passengers than Cheltenham town centre.

 

Extensions to lines are fine sounding. I am sure the G&WSR will consolidate on their successful extension and subsequent increase in passengers to Broadway. They, I am sure, are wary of falling into the trap, that can be a millstone, of too long a line and all the extra resources that entails. As a heritage line, in a quite beautiful part of England and with major conurbations in fairly easy reach, I believe the management is probably quite content, at present, to avoid empire building schemes. I am sure there is much to be done to maintain what exists already. Fourteen miles is no small line to maintain and operate.

 

1. Have you been imbibing? 2. Do you know how much money it would cost to get to Honeybourne and how much the ROI might be? 3. Do you know how much vandalism has occurred at the Hunting Butts Tunnel section of the line in 2019 alone?
Check out the effort and money being spent on a section of trackbed that the GWSR doesnt even run trains on, yet, if ever!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gwr-lineside-drainage-management/

 

What he said!

 

You're having a larf! Start at £5 million and go up from there!

 

Never mind all this, when are we going to see this Toplight coach of yours finished then?! The trackbed south of Swindon Lane Road Bridge does not belong to the GWSR and has been infilled. End of.

 

I wouldn't go *quite* that far, but certainly rather challenging.

 

As I expect you recall - although maybe not some of the other recent posters - this discussion has been had before at length, but I'm too lazy to search for it at the moment.

IIRC, isn't the real issue with Honeybourne is that Sustran owns the trackbed between there and Broadway?

Noel

 

Without expressing any view as to the feasibility or desirability of an extension at that end, I would point out that Google satellite view shows the trackbed intact as a footpath well beyond Swindon Lane, with what looks like a new bridge (possibly only suitable for foot traffic) over Honeybourne Way and ending opposite the present NR station.

 

Yes, Sustrans own it but are thought to be favourable to a transfer. The real issue is money. The trackbed as such is flat and simple, but there are several overbridges in extremely poor condition (two are propped) and the current owner has done nothing at all to maintain them. Lorries of the heaviest kind use them daily but the bridges were built to 1904 requirements, which gave a maximum load of 18 tons. How 44 tonners are permitted to use them today completely escapes me, especially with the propping underneath admitting to their parlous state. One bridge has a concrete plant next to it, so fully loaded concrete lorries go over that bridge, the parapet of which was rammed by a lorry last year. Another has an industrial estate on a former airfield next to it, and that is used by huge trailer lorries from the continent.

 

The main area of infill is just to the north of the Prince of Wales Stadium. It's not as bad as the Bluebell Railway's northern extension through an infilled cutting was, but it has all the issues of a methane producing landfill site, according to the GWSR estates member, a good friend who passed away recently. I'll agree though that most of the rest of the trackbed is quite well preserved as a walkway. I attach photos (not mine) of the Honeybourne Way bridge and the Cheltenham St James/Honeybourne Line bridge then and now.

There is a school of thought that one way of keeping on top of the lineside drainage and clearance (the area north of Hunting Butts Tunnel was completely cleared in 2010 but has had to be completely cleared again in 2018-9) and deterring the constant vandalism in this area is to lay track and run trains as far south as is practical. However, the cost v ROI is the major issue, leaving aside of running trains from the race course south to where exactly? Nothing is impossible, but 1978 would have been the best time to do it.