West Somerset Railway General Discussion

In what way is the term ‘keyboard warrior’ not a pejorative epithet? It is unnecessary and saying please and thank you does not change it.

If I wrote “To all the narcissistic pompous dickheads who are involved at the WSR. Please change your attitude and behaviour if you want people to visit, volunteer and donate to the railway. Thank you.’ I am sure you would think I had insulted you and your colleagues if I were to write this. It would also obscure the point made in the second line.

I don’t expect a parade for donating, but if I am donating I am donating to a group that at least respects people. Calling people names is disrespectful. If those involved with the WSR can’t see that, then I can’t help them.

 

Well that's a compelling pitch - donate money so I can drive the loco!

 

Given the history of WSRA appeals maybe the cash is not coming in as hoped and it is now at a desperate stage.
What must puzzle many here is that a certain poster - who doesn't get to read some posts - gave NP readers the impressions that the WSRA had plenty of money - enough to buy 4110 in fact. If so they should have enough to pay for completion this loco.

 

I think people are being unduly harsh on this post - I read it as a sort 'OK lads, we all have a lot to say here, please show some financial interest too!' - perhaps a slight case of forgetting that the 'mess room banter' like nature of a Forum doesn't always come across on the screen but I honestly think to say even that is being over harsh.

I suspect those who have taken offence are judging @Geoff May 's perhaps 'matey' post by the standards of certain other posters on the thread, which I can understand but which I would suggest is rather harsh on Geoff!

Steven

 

Here lies one of the problems of the WSR. The railway attempts to generate funds for good causes but in the process they annoy the very same people that they offer their begging bowl to.
Let's face it the appeal for the Large Prairie was a complete cock up. Let's hope that the railway is more successful in the appeal for 9351.

As for the Bob Geldolf approach, there's a huge difference between generating cash to complete the build of a locomotive and an impassioned plea to raise money for famine relief in Ethiopia.

Sorry for the rant. <BJ>

 

I'm sure footplate passes could be arranged for generous donors!!

 

Being serious, you would have to be cautious about that if donations are routed through the charity, since donations have to be precisely that: a donation, not a payment for a service. Since some railways offer footplate rides as a premium service of considerable cash value, offering them in a formal way in exchange for donations above a certain value might be considered to invalidate the charitable nature of the donation. (In the same way you couldn't offer, say, "anyone donating more than £500 will receive a complimentary ticket on the Quantock Belle" etc.)

Tom

 

Surely it's only an insult to those who think they fit that description. . .

 

I noticed elsewhere that a £1000 donation received a thank you in public yet the smaller amounts had no acknowledgement, or perhaps I missed it?

 

It is possible to give 'acknowledgements' to donors within the Gift Aid rules - usually by means of the 'admission to view' exemption. Different railways have different situations even in respect of Membership - and not all do Gift Aid Membership because of differing advice from different areas of HMRC in the past.

How you acknowledge donations and give me sense of 'thank you' and involvement is one of the challenges of successful fund raising and, dare I say, one of the areas where 'ask those who have already done it' may be a good idea!

Steven

 

Indeed it was. Surely if the WSRA is cash rich and worked with 4110 Ltd then a deal should easily have happened. But it didn't - why??

Who gains from this loss:

The PLC - they lose a loco but fills a cah hole.

4110 ltd - they lose after a herculean effort.

WSRA - neutral, it has cost them nothing. But is has set a market price for a derelict large prairie......

 

The 4110 fiasco doesn't look good. It gives the outside world an impression of various members of the West Somerset 'family' competing with each other. I feel most sorry for the people in 4110 Ltd, who simply wanted to keep a very appropriate loco on the WSR and made a huge effort to achieve this, only to be rebuffed by the Company. But I'm sure we all want to achieve a prosperous WSR, and the fact that 4110 Ltd were able to raise so much in a short time does show that there is a lot of goodwill towards the WSR. Perhaps a little further down the road, the WSR (having recovered from its present difficulties) may be able to buy the loco back in fully restored condition - stranger things have happened!

Meanwhile, lets all go to BL as soon as possible after 30th March and buy a ticket to travel over this superb line. Every little helps!

 

The actual price paid may have been higher as it seems there was more than one bidder. It is also worth remembering that the loco is partially dismantled and the costs of making it useable will be very high. The WSRA already owns several locos awaiting funds for restoration. The Trustees have not disclosed why the joint efforts did not succeed or how much money they were actually prepared to commit. Perhaps efforts might be directed towards restoring the other WSRA locos.

 

Mention of footplate passes set me wondering. Does the WSR do paid for Footplate trips? I looked on the website and, although I could find driving and firing courses, I couldn't find simple footplate rides. The NYMR does very well with these and they are booked up on most days (MON-FRI) throughout the season. It is good money coming in at virtually no cost as the trains are running in any case. Simple maths: £350 x 5 days x 30 weeks = £52,500.

 

there's a coach depot right next to the station.
My preference for a visit is Williton as a start point, but it's not very practical to expect everyone to do so. I think the journey is over-long to do the whole line, for me as a personal opinion, but no doubt some passengers relish the longer journey.

 

I think you are missing the point, the PLC offered the 4110 group 4110 at a price, they raised that money in a short period of time from within the WSR Loco Department team but as they did the PLC Chairman moved the goal posts a number of times, then the WSRA came in with an assumption that all the donors would just gift the money plus a set of assumptions which didn’t help and in my opinion was not supportive of the members and volunteers they should be representing. Then the PLC said it just wouldn’t sell 4110 to the 4110 group at any price, the net result is that 4110 is now gone. I’m also not buying the ‘we have to sell it to the highest bidder’ I question if it needed selling at all in my view (that's not just an unqualified remark).

The WSR could have had both the money and the engine, the 4110 group made up of long term mechanical engineering and footplate volunteers from the loco department were not only going to put their hands in their pockets but would have had the skills and manpower to restore the loco over time without draining PLC resources (that was a stated aim of the group, along with it staying on the WSR). Regarding being part dismantled that’s also missing the point, some work has been done and most of the parts are there in store. It would have taken time and fund raised money but that solution was also in place, again at no long term cost to the WSR, it’s a classic case of being able to have your cake and eat it.

How do I know? I was one of the original 4110 group and tried as WSR Community Engagement Manager (at that time) to get all sides to talk and make it happen, but only the 4110 group were being positive. It made me very unpopular and I’m now not involved with CE on the WSR in any regard.

Whilst I understand more than most that things need to improve so changes need to be made, this is just one thing of many currently that in my opinion I’m very uncomfortable with, including the departure of 44422 and 6695 and the arrival of 7027 perhaps soon to be branded as a ‘community project’ which the community will no-doubt be asked to restore and pay for.

One question that maybe needs asking is why does nobody from the working membership of the WSR post here or elsewhere much any longer (it generates an email from HR when you do in my case)? Let’s just say that I have had to step away from the WSR having developed and won the HPC Community Engagement Award, Bestt Training Programme, Community Engagement/Volunteer Recruitment remit, 1940’s Weekend, Dfe/Opportunity Area Project, Dunster Goods Yard rebuild project, found and recruited a WSRA Fundraiser and Volunteer WSRA Trustee with a fundraising remit, because my views do not align with that of the PLC Chairman and that makes me unpopular and no-doubt has made me one of his much spoken off “Trouble Makers who will be driven out of the WSR”.

Why post this now? the PLC have been chasing me consistently for my WSR I D Card to stop me acting as footplate crew as the Chairman and GM seem to think I’m not good enough to be involved in any regard if I post on Social Media. My compliant via the WSR Bullying & Harassment Policy hasn’t been replied to, so I’ve nothing to lose.

Others who have also received ‘the gypsies warning’ and emails re posting and stating an opinion wish to stay in the WSR they love so have their heads down, they have a lot to lose in their hobby, for me I’m already out, so this is for them. This will no-doubt cost me my I D Card and ability to fire engines on the WSR but I had said to those concerned that if I’m pushed I won’t be bullied so this is a parting gift to all my good friends on the WSR who work hard and volunteer and who deserve better than the current culture.

Everything here is only my personal opinion, the phrase Lions lead by Donkeys is an expression I have heard a lot recently. Good luck to the WSR, despite this negative post it does have a lot of great people at grass roots level in it and a lot of great potential. Over and Out.

 

The above quote is an abridgement of the original post..
The part that intrigued me was the part I have highlighted.
It may well be why 4110 was not considered worth being an essential part of the WSR fleet. It may not.
The highlighted part is open to a few interpretations I guess, but presumably all will be revealed next month it seems.

 

A very good suggestion, @Steve. I enjoyed a footplate ride on Raveningham Hall a couple of years ago and it was a great experience. The cost was £50, but looking back on the experience I would gladly pay more to do it again.

A word of warning for those who may be tempted; you need to be in possession of fire-retardant overalls and suitable footware. No small outlay if you don't already have them.

Stef.

 

My interpretation of that is simply facing up to the reality that by necessity the WSR is having to operate some locos that are heavier than the line was originally designed to cope with. 4110 doesn't fit I to that category so I shouldn't think it's particularly relevant.

@Andy Norman I'd be surprised if we were to see an appeal for 7027 given it is owned by a private individual, it is for him to raise the funds for it unless he transfers ownership to a more suitable body.