West Somerset Railway General Discussion

I thought some leading lights on the WSR wished to create a GWR - even a B and E, ethos to the line. So naturally ex GWR locomotives would not be seen as out of place there. However, is there is a lesson then to be learned in so far as it is necessary to be all things to all people as a recipe for success? I often wonder how many passengers are really able to discern historic, or replica historic features on heritage lines. Only enthusiasts I suggest.

 

There are potentially too many ifs and unknowns I'd have thought for any one to seriously pin the hopes of their tourist attraction on a sudden upswing in domestic tourism.

I have no desire to enter into a Brexit debate but if there is serious economic dislocation stemming from the UK leaving the EU, then we may see a decline in relative and potentially absolute household incomes.

What I do know is that historical evidence shows that when times are hard households tend to reduce volume but still have things. So for example rather than going away twice or three times in a year only go away once. Now, all other things being equal and assuming that there are no other barriers to foreign travel, a possible scenario is that if the cost of travel increases, rather than people having a UK holiday over say Easter and the foreign holiday in the summer, households are likely to favour the more 'valuable' holiday. So paradoxically, there may actually be a decline in 'secondary holidays' on which UK tourism depends.

However, all this is caveated in that these are ifs, buts and potential scenarios but the bottomline remains, any scenario where there is a drop in living standards, household income etc, does not bode well for the future of the WSR or any other tourism attraction that is currently on the margins of financial viability.

(This would also apply if there were a second global financial crisis on a par with 2008).

 

I think the WSR has to sell itself as an all-day railway themed attraction, with all its elements joined by a railway line, so people can travel and hop on or off at whatever stations they want to. to see what interests them . The NYMR's old marketing slogan "More than just a train ride" sho There are, after all, a number of varied attractions along the line such as Watchet Harbour, the S & D Museum, the Broad Gauge museum and so on. I don't think that the type of locos in use really matters. There is ample evidence that bigger engines are an attraction whatever their origins and as the WSR uses bigger engines almost exclusively I don't see that as a concern, make them a virue and promote them in their own right.

 

The WSR is blessed with many virtues, not least its varied countryside / coastal scenery, the geography which provides two summits to give the locos the opportunity to show off, and the number of places / things to see and do along the route. Plenty to promote.

Speaking personally, the coincidence that it runs so close to Station House, Stogumber is also a significant plus point!

Robin

 

We did that between 2008 and 2011. The number of crew members hasn't really increased, we run with about 70 drivers and 70 fireman. That's been the same since early 2000s!

 

Enthusiasts would be able to detect subtle features but the general public will see the difference between level crossing gates and lifting barriers, slam door stock and sliding doors, semaphore signals and colour lights, a station building rom the 1800s and one built in the 60s etc. Similarly with locomotives they may not see too much difference between a Castle, Hall and a Manor but I reckon they will tell a Standard 2-6-4T from a 4F 0-6-0 and a Black Five - he said trying desperately to avoid the wealth of designs and variations from his spiritual home the Southern and its constituents

 

Most passengers may not worry about subtle features but one thing they can spot is shabby coaches.

 

The WSR is too long and the service too infrequent to provide an attractive proposition for "get off at each station and see what we have" sort of visit (unlike say the KWVR who do this really well - because they are 1/4 of the length). Most people would worry about the wait for the next train too much to risk finding that the attraction at a particular point only holds their attention for 20mins out of a 1hr (or more)wait.

IMHO there needs to be a really hard look at how the frequency/intensity of trains might be increased primarily so that the number of sets and locomotives can be reduced, whilst possibly providing more short trip options for those that dont want the full trip - these short trips might then make a destination out of the attractions along the line. The current timetables seem to have operating slack in them. There is a long section that messes things up. Radical suggestion I know, but reinstate that loop by swiping the equipment from another if that is what it takes. WSR needs to be able to run with fewer locos and carriages more intensively used.

I would consider moving the Museum from BL to Williton and in the longer term moving the S&D museum there also.... concentrate the exhibits sufficiently to make it obvious it is a destination. Williton is a sensible distance from each end. I realise fully that this means moving the Williton activites elsewhere... but I have just freed up a couple of buildings!

If it were me I would also concentrate very hard on doing everything possible to enhance the on train experience (and with this concentration of "stuff" at Williton) so that people want to travel more than once in their holiday. Once to do the full trip and once to do the part. Short of full catering on every train there is I suspect room for much secondary spend growth without catastrophic cost impact.

OK. So having lobbed that hand grenade I shall go and hide.

 

One of the things the WSR maybe could do is take an idea I think the GWSR use (well certainly they used to) and that is give out some free tickets to the owners of all the B and Bs, hotels, guest houses, camp sites, caravans parks, coach companies etc in the area for them to use on a particular day. The idea is they then experience the railway and help promote it to their guests. They do it once a year and then put the railways leaflets so their own guests can view them.

Would be interesting for someone involved in the GWSR to comment if they still do this and how successful/not successful it is. ?

The other thing I think the railway lacks which I would love to see (restored vintage coaches, eg GWR ones etc). They have them, just not enough restored ones. Derelict ones don't count.

 

But is that variety due to necessity rather than by choice? Both the GCR and NYMR were part of the LNER and,especially given that only one LNER loco (61264) ended up at Barry, creating a decent sized fleet from the 1970s onwards meant obtaining engines with no historical connection to the line or the area. As for the Bluebell, a significant element of the variety there is due to it ending up very early on as a repository for stock from all three main pre-grouping Southern companies (LB&SCR, L&SWR, SE&CR) as well as the SR and BR. The ELR now has 34092 (and one day, 7229) but otherwise has a very LMS/BR(M) flavour to it.

For a GWR heritage line, one cannot blame the members for choosing to acquire locos with historical and geographcial connections to the immediate area if not the line itself, especially given the large number of Great Western locos which ended up at Barry. I don't think Joe Public really minds that much about the variety (or lack of it) in a heritage line's loco fleet

 

Our experience on a NYMR train during the Autumn half term in 2016 was that we had to stand on the first train from Pickering to Whitby. We joined at Levisham

 

My wife's grandparents lived in Minehead since 1930s and became shareholders when the WSR first reopened in the 1970s. In those days, heritage railways seemed to exist primarily for 'enthusiasts' who sweated, toiled and donated to save what we now have and grown in the UK as our railway heritage - something much different than in those early days. My first excursions on mainline steam were almost entirely filled with 'steam buffs' and now, Steam Dreams or WC trips will likely have the odd enthusiast per coach and no more. Quite simply, the world has changed and marketing is more important for heritage railways than ever before, something that I'm sure didn't exist in 1975 for those lines already running trains at weekends for fellow enthusiasts and more as more revenue was needed.
I travelled from London to Minehead last spring behind Clan Line and was certainly in a minority within the confines of my coach, knowing the locomotive up front like a personal friend, the route and also what I'll likely see along the way.
Now for the WSR, I've always thought that for many, the line is probably a bit longer than optimum for a round trip that may take best part of the whole day up for a visiting family that isn't consumed with pawing over copper-clad restorations or the like. The 2+2 family wants to enjoy the experience of a day out on a steam train without it becoming tedious and in my opinion, a line such as MHR or Bluebell is probably better for holding the interest of those on board. I'm generalising here of course and will except having some degree of bias being the father of three grown up daughters who failed to keep their interest when they were small, in engines alone!
In terms of whether the engine up front looks like any other, is same colour and even somewhat identical bar the name & number, I really only think this concerns us enthusiasts. I travel for engines new for my experience, engines newly restored and for authenticity. Sad as it may seem, I'd rather have a great western Manor or Hall on the WSR than an A4 or Flying Scotsman, both of the latter which I'd happily go for on a mainline experience. General public however would likely think the opposite and Hogwort's Express in GWR red would likely please the children if not myself if I happen to be there as well!

I do not have the background of troubles that have afflicted WSR in the past, nor the answers to the challenges that the current board face however, whilst I may be a donor and supporter to heritage railways and selected projects & locomotives, I am in no doubt that these railways are not possibly able to run for my delight alone since to survive they need to market themselves to families and folk who don't care a jot whether the loco making noise up front was designed by Churchward, Bullied or Gresely, only that they will get value for money from a good all-round experience. Having said this, the railway needs to keep enthusiasts 'sweet' to a large degree as they can't survive without their trusty volunteers who want that authenticity and nostalgia to hold them. A shareholding in a heritage railway means little more than a donation to me and I manage my expectations accordingly expecting nothing much in return. It's a donation after all rather than a monetary investment. I would be completely guessing but I wonder if the % of revenue from steam/diesel enthusiasts visiting WSR to be less than 20%?? Someone will have a better idea, I'm sure.

I share the considerations of how Brexit could reduce the 'wallet' of ordinary families visiting Butlins or a Caravan at Watchet or BA more than ever given wage stagnation over past decade. A 2+2 family return from MD to BL would cost £?? Add some cooked refreshments from the newly installed griddle car and I can imagine the wallet shrinking some more - maybe cash-strapped family watch the trains go by and be happy with a picnic? You may think me to have my glass half full here yet in truth I am an optimist and I am looking forward to the latest exec running WSR to face their demons & take the railway forwards. I am sure this is something that they can achieve with your ongoing support, no? I trust all members of NP to have a shared & common interest in successful Railway Preservation

 

I fear that, as with politicians presuming to say they know why people voted as they did, making assumptions that people don't really know or care about what they are looking at when they choose a venue to spend their money seems a dangerous path.

 

Unless they are 'tempted' away - a halt might prove a suitable incentive.

I became interested in the WSR when I read it was closing in the Telegraph having spent a wonderful week in Butlins in September 1969 when I was a student. I came down from Harpenden in Hertfordshire by Train for the horrendous fare of £5 return!! I seem to remember the weeks stay in the Stulag as we came to refer to it was about £16 10 shillings (50p). We did venture out but only halfway along the seafront to the dodgems. At the time there was no incentive to do otherwise!

 

But what about getting there?

A few years back there was a Butlins Train that originated in Bristol but was an abysmal failure sadly, but Why? It was done in a hurry and was never Marketed Properly so inevitably it would not succeed as a consequence. Having failed No one has bothered to try again but with a halt at Butlins it could well make the difference provided it was Marketed properly of course.

 

It is clear the length of the line, the length of the journey, the type of locomotive and rolling stock, value for money, promotional efforts, have not significantly changed since the WSR was packing them in ten years ago. Identifying what has changed has long been a key task along with finding new things to help build the numbers.

I'd say the commercial team have done very well in the last few years and will continue to build on that good work. One area I'd like to see even better efforts, is a greater "churn" of news from the WSR Plc - not necessarily the topics we Nat Pres type like to see but the stuff that encourages the non-railway-enthusiast to use the WSR and its services.

Steve

 

It’s a dangerous path, but the observation was fair. Most preserved railway visitors are not enthusiasts, and most preserved railways do little to draw visitors’ attention to what is actually hauling their train.

It think it’s therefore reasonable to assume that most visitors have limited interest in the specifics of the locomotive fleet, and therefore that there is low sensitivity from the travelling public as to how the fleet is comprised.

That equation changes absolutely when considering the enthusiasts who visit and volunteer, for whom such things are as important as they are unimportant to the general public.

The challenge is in balancing the two.


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Just goes to show what continuing effect the " Toxic 6 " are having on the WSR .

 

With regard to passenger numbers, a factor that needs to be considered is that in some holiday areas many of the visitors tend to to be "repeaters". That is to say that the same people come back year after year - perhaps because they aren't very adventurous, or because they own a caravan/cottage in the area. They might visit the railway once, and then think "been there, done that" and not bother again. I don't know present day Somerset well but in North Wales (which I do know better) some of the railways carry far fewer passengers than they did in the 1960s and 70s. But far fewer people visit the area now than then, whilst many of those that do are people who return to the area year after year. Some might say "I went to the South Devon Railway once" so I've "done" the railway thing. Ironically it might be that those with children might be tempted to go back again another year (but only if they found the first visit satisfactory) but they are the ones who might be more financially challenged when it comes to investing what is quite a large amount of money for a day out. To increase passenger numbers you not only need to have a good "product" to sell, but you have to have people available to sell to. To get repeat visits either the "product" needs to be very good, or there needs to be some aspect of variety that is attractive to the average punter - different destinations or varying attractions. Want to get young families? Perhaps look at a children's event focussed at one end of the line (I hate to say it - Peppa Pig for example - Minehead to Blue Anchor, and you could use a smaller loco for that if one was available). It might seem naff to many of us, but if it puts cash in the bank then why not? Purists can go and enjoy the rest of the line for that day.

Having a variety of locos, as has been suggested above, is something that probably only appeals to the enthusiast, and perhaps only to some of those. If I was in the area and visited the WSR I'd only do it once whilst I was there. If I returned the following year and wanted to ride again I wouldn't be put off if the same locos were running again. Not everyone's view I know, but each to their own!

Steve B

 

Certainly probably worth doing (and perhaps the WSR already does this), but I can't help feeling that the WSR is so significant amongst attractions in the area that most of its target market should be aware of its presence before settling into their B&B. If a large number of people who have booked to stay in the area are genuinely saying that, when planning their break they did not realise there was a 20-mile long heritage line right on the doorstep ready to fill a good chunk of one day then something has already gone wrong.

I would expect most people planning a break in the North Yorkshire Moors area are aware of the railway. The GWSR is perhaps different because a lot of people will be in and around the area for other reasons and so I could imagine the B&B leaflet being a significant player.

My wife had never heard of the WSR before we went on it last summer - arguably it needs something to etch it into the public's awareness in the way the eg NYMR , Severn Valley , Ffestiniog & Bluebell are?

Jon