Tornado Railtours - 2019

27th April White Rose has gone now.

IMPORTANT – THE WHITE ROSE ON SATURDAY 27 APRIL – PLEASE READ!

The following is a message from Tornado Steam Traction, owners and operators of 60163 ‘Tornado’:

‘It is with regret that we are having to withdraw our White Rose tour of 27 April 2019. We would like to offer our sincere apologies for the cancellation. Unfortunately, further time is needed in respect of obtaining clearance because of structural and gauging issues. This means we are unable to fulfil this main line tour. We would therefore like to offer a full refund of the amount paid.

‘It is hoped that we will be able to reschedule this tour at a later date, when the clearances have been granted, and we will offer passengers who have initially booked this tour the opportunity to reserve a seat before it is made available to the general public’.

 

My guess...

 

My local line. Not surprised. I don't think there's been steam on that line since Leander did The Tall Ships in 2010. Quite apart from the gauging issues after the Duchess touched the bridge at Harrogate, half hourly frequencies most of the day are great but don't help when it comes to anything unusual, though I think the occasional Northern Belle has run.

 

Shouldn't be a surprise to anybody. Harrogate has been a no-go area to steam since 2010, for reasons mentioned by @D5177_55A at #265.

 

I tried to book the Devonian yesterday and was told it might well not run, due to issues that had yet to be resolved. Not sure what...

Sent from my SM-J330FN using Tapatalk

 

What run was that date on when the Duchess scraped the bridge in Harrogate 30567 is it the A61 bridge south of Harrogate stray you mean in post #265 by D5177 55A.

 

Well I booked on the White Rose and got a full refund off U.K.R.T. today, I reckoned as well a Class 8 loco wouldn't go up that line to Harrogate. I knew there were a bridge with a tight squeeze. i just didn't know where until I read the previous posts. And the half hourly trains up to knaresborough and york are they a problem to squeeze a path into?Davo 56F

 

How long as this trip being known about and now all of sudden there's issues ? I'll be rather irritated if this one doesn't go ahead after the previous postponement. The A1SLT tour schedule is falling apart, regardless of issues outside of their control.

 

Was it on a N.R. decision why a cancellation was announced about the bridge clearance gauging. and maybe the halfhourly frequency of traffic up the harrogate line no steam has gone through harrogate for over 8 years Lmarsh1987 and when i said a decision by N.R. Im only taking a wild guess maybe the A1 steam loco trust themselves cancelled it i wonder.

 

I'm talking in regards the rumours over the 'Devonian' trip ! The gauging issue for Harrogate should of be known when the tour was in the planning stage. Would like to know what outstanding issues have now cropped up in reference to DB running with Tornado over the Devon Banks.

 

Just what i was thinking when various tour T.O.C. know and N.R. and local rail enthusiasts who live round harrogate and leeds and york a lad who i know that volunteers up at K.V.W.R. told me about the low or narrow bridge (i think its the A61 road bridge south of harrogate stray its been replaced with a concrete structure im not 100% sure though if its that 1) funny how kettles have not been up there over 4 more than 8 years and the loco that did it was 46233 8p in august 1st 2007 on the scarborough spa and scraped the dam bridge. Thats why but after that occasion leander went through harrogate on the tall ships run on 9th august 2010 and that was the last tour on that line. I would definatly say a class 8 is out of gauge i dont know about before 1968 on the harrogate pullmans im sure that A1,S went up there in the glory days ive seen a picture of A3 60112 st simon emerging from bramhope tunnel.

 

Height of a peppercorn A1 13ft 1in
Height of a duchess 13ft 3in make no wonder then if theres only 2 in difference it would have to gingerly go at walking pace under the bridge.

 

The Duchess' height is now 13'1", which is the maximum height permitted by NR. It wasn't her height that caused the bridge strike; it was one front corner of her firebox that made contact with the bridge.

Now, given that Tornado has a round topped firebox, and thus no corners, that problem doesn't come into play, so it must be something else which hasn't been disclosed yet, possibly to do with the kinematic envelope? If a gauging train hasn't been along there in a while, allowing the necessary checks and comparisons to be made, then that would account for the refusal.

The other possibility, as alluded to earlier in the thread, is that there simply isn't a suitable path available.

 

The Duchess hit the bridge near Harrogate on its first run on the Scarborough Spa Express in 2007 - 31st July to be precise. As the photograph shows, it was the firebox shoulder that hit and not the loco's highest point. The photo was taken from the footbridge outside York Hospital where the train stopped in those days for water.

This bridge is still the reason that many locos are banned over the route, even Class 37s with roof mounted horns. This is why Class 20's are still used on the RHTTs (rail head treatment trains) over the line in the autumn. So it is no surprise that Tornado has gauging issues on this route. The bridge concerned is on the approach to Hornbeam Park station south of Harrogate.

Peter

 

I am told the Devonian is cancelled. No crews

 

Re Harrogate, a couple more comments.

1. Steam did continue for a while after the Duchess incident. It's difficult to see why Jubilees and Black Fives would not be OK there today (subject to regauging, which would also be required since the relining of Bramhope Tunnel). But Tornado might not be OK. And stock with opening windows might be dodgy. Last year WCR tried to run an excursion over the line but I suspect as Peter says, class 47s were off limits.

2. Re the pathing, viewed in isolation there probably might just be a path at say 13 past from Leeds which gave time to drop the passengers at Harrogate and get through the single track sections to Skelton Jct without conflicts. But first you have to get through Leeds, and the only approach which works is via Micklefield and Leeds station, a notoriously congested section. There is no crossover from the Leeds avoiding line to the Harrogate line. Then you have to do it all again in reverse in the afternoon. It's probably all just too tight and risky. Until a year ago, something could probably have been made to work on a Sunday, but now the Sunday schedule is not that different from weekdays off-peak.

 

Get WCR to crew it. The crews should of been reserved when the tour was rescheduled last summer.