How many times did this happen?

I have added a photo of something of a rarity, as far as I can tell a WD 2-8-0 hauling a passenger coach, albeit an engineer’s saloon


90341 Preston 11th July 1958 with an ex L&YR coach as an engineers saloon


https://railway-photography.smugmug.com/BRStandardSteam/WD-Austerity/WD-Austerity-280/9025190500/i-JS3CSW8


Neil

 

Odd one that. Certainly in my youth (growing up in Lancaster) the locally kept engineers saloon (M45047)was only ever usually seen with a bulled up Ivatt 2 (46443 was one of these) known by railwaymen as 'the engineers engine.' So quite what a filthy Wakefield WD is doing at Preston with such a vehicle is beyond me!

 

It may be rare on an engineer's coach but quite often WD 2-8-0s were used on the ecs moves for weekend holiday extras so possibly not so rare in certain areas ?

 

I would concur with Fred, Bury's Dubdee's were used on Fridays to position ECS rakes around the area for Saturday holiday trains, although I never was hauled by one in a passenger movement until preservation days. We used to get all the times of everything usual for the weekend on Thursday afternoon from our friendly station master at Bury Knowsley Street station, out of the weekly STN.

 

I've only ever seen one photo of a WD on a passenger turn, at Swinton on the line out of Manchester, it was a four coach non corridor set, so presumably a last minute replacement for a class 4 tank

 

Yes.
Ray.

 

I'm not convinced that this is an actual working; it might be a simple shunting move. The loco is dirty - those for an engineer's train were generally very clean - the loco is in back gear and there doesn't seem to be a lamp over the left hand buffer.

Although WDs, and they were all vacuum fitted, were used on ecs and excursion trains, they were very much a last resort after all suitable locos had been used; their unsuitability at speeds above about 25 mph being the determining factor.

 

As a historian, generally looking for information on operations, one has to look at a photograph and consider why the photographer used his silver to take the photo. Often photographers aren't interested in typical everyday operations - they're interested in unusual operations. You might therefore end up with (say) 10 photos, 9 of freights and 1 of passenger, when real ratio was (say) 99:1 in favour of the former.

 

A lot of freight loco's were unfitted so could not be used on passenger trains, but of the fitted eight coupled locos & the WD 2-10-0's how often were they used on passenger trains - S&D excepted

 

I stand to be corrected, but I don't think the WD 2-10-0s were ever used on the S&D, it was the BR Standard 9Fs. The WDs were mostly, possibly exclusively, Scottish Region allocated.

 

Er, sorry what I meant was that the use of 7F's & 8F's on passenger workings on the S&D is well documented, ditto the use of 9F's both on the S&D & in other areas - I should have mentioned the GWR 47XX as well, but what about the use of 2-8-0 & 0-8-0 locos on passenger workings elsewhere, ditto the WD 2-10-0's

 

Stanier 8Fs were fairly common on excursion trains and the odd local passenger train. I doubt the WD 2-10-0s were so used, but the 9Fs were, until a ban on them on passenger work was issued. The S&D 7Fs worked passenger trains over the home railway when locos were in short supply, common enough on summer Saturdays. Super Ds and WD 2-8-0s would be a last resort on the LMR. Don't know about other regions' goods engines though.

 

WD 2-10-0s were entirely confined to Scotland. Were Austin 7s ever used on passenger turns as a last resort?

 

Not quite correct. 90763 was allocated to Carlisle Kingmoor and, according to certain books, it was allocated to 6F Bidston in 1959/60. There is photographic evidence of 9o763 on 9F Heaton Mersey shed and 27E Walton on the Hill shed about 1957. It got to Walton after working one of the Long Meg to Widnes anhydrite trains.

 

In the late 1940's or early 50's I recall seeing locomotives (with numbers commencing 90xxx) heading south from the Birmingham area on the North Warwickshire line. Where they went I do not know, maybe Rowington Junction sent them to Oxon. There were dirty black and I thought them quite ugly and brutal looking. That, of course, was in comparison with the usual ex GWR 4-6-0's and Prairies. There were other oddities such as ex LMS 4-6-0's.

 

I thought that WD 2-10-0s had worked on the ex GC?

(Or am I thinking of the WD 2-8-0s?)

 

I think it was just the WD 2-8-0s. I do recall seeing those at Bulwell Common in the late fifties/early sixties.

Dave B

 

Was this commonplace?
Darlington with a possibility that 1 of these 2 Snowploughs is mine, number 18

 

Don't forget that 4Fs, which had 5'3" drivers (nominal) had some mixed traffic ability too; I think this would have been used more in their early lives when there were fewer better alternatives but given the choice between a 4F and a WD for a passenger train, the 4F would generally prevail in terms of performance.