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Bulleid Royal Navy Class light pacifics

Discussie in 'Steam Traction' gestart door OldChap, 5 apr 2019.

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  1. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    West of Salisbury and someone decided that Wiltshire was where the West Country started!
     
    Big Al, 7 apr 2019
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  2. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Yes, but then it's a strange argument to say Dorchester, Weymouth or Swanage aren't in the West Country! Wilton wasn't exactly a major rail destination either.

    FWIW, I tend to think of Wiltshire as central southern England, but then I am neither the Southern Railway's presiding marketing genius, nor the present day Government topographer...

    Tom
     
    Jamessquared, 7 apr 2019
    #22
  3. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    ...and Lundy. As for Hartland (Point), mentioned by @Spamcan81, at least this is a place on mainland England not that the LSWR went anywhere near it. But that is also true of Clovelly (34037) so faced with the opportunity of naming the West Country Class after stations in the West Country served by the former LSWR, someone decided to go for something more random. No doubt, at the time there were pressure groups at work wanting their own village/town recognised. However, it seems that the Southern Railway officials were definitely not going to name one of their locomotives after a place in the West Country if it wasn't served by the SR. Hence the omission of Taunton etc. But why they chose Yes Tor rather than High Willhays on Dartmoor will never be known.
     
    Big Al, 7 apr 2019
    #23
  4. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    What was obviously going on Tom was that the SR wanted to name some of its locomotives after places that their railway served and 'West Country' was a good enough collective name. So you can't ignore any 'end points' of lines - hence, Swanage, Weymouth, Lyme Regis, Padstow etc. I'm just observing that the logic was not complete although I think you may be underestimating the importance of Wilton in 1940 as a place where the SR said goodbye to the WR and also its significance as a manufacturing centre for carpets. So, as I said, I suspect that the WC names were a committee decision and not one made by a single person applying common sense.
     
    Big Al, 7 apr 2019
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  5. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm sure you are correct about this being a PR exercise as much as anything else. If it was a romantic or curious name then let's have it. Westward Ho! had to be there but having said that the SR avoided WR locations, how did City of Wells slip in? Maybe it slipped under the wire because of the S&D connection at the time. Interesting stuff but now history.
     
    Big Al, 7 apr 2019
    #25
  6. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Just a thought, but “City of Wells” was built in September 1949, and named slightly later, so the naming would have been a BR decision by then, not an SR decision.

    Tom
     
    Jamessquared, 7 apr 2019
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  7. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    And that may simply be what happened. The early names of WCs were pretty logical with places west of Salisbury being identified (Exeter, Salisbury, Plymouth, Yeovil etc) either as significant stations on the line, end points or significant landmarks. It may not be a coincidence that when the WC names were picked up again towards the end of the class, and under BR as you say, we gained, logically,Weymouth (91) and Swanage (105) plus the rag tag and bobtail collection of hamlets they ignored the first time around. At the time there were clearly influential people with businesses on Trevone (96) Beach who saw the opportunity!
     
    Big Al, 7 apr 2019
    #27
  8. The Dainton Banker

    The Dainton Banker Well-Known Member

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    Agreed Bournemouth was not West Country as it was still in Hampshire at the time of these locomotives. However, in my experience, the West Country has always been defined as the five traditional counties of Cornwall, Devon, Somerset, Dorset and Wiltshire. The three latter, being largely rural, have much more in common with Devon and Cornwall than they do with the more heavily developed Hampshire and Berkshire. (Arguably Gloucestershire could have been included but I guess the fact that it folds round the Severn estuary took it out of the running ! )
     
    The Dainton Banker, 7 apr 2019
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  9. arthur maunsell

    arthur maunsell Well-Known Member

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    i don't think that's the case. Most of them are quite sizable places. What tiny places did you have in mind?
     
    arthur maunsell, 7 apr 2019
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  10. blink bonny

    blink bonny Member

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    Well just a few names off the top of my head, with attached populations from the 2011 census, by which time the populations had presumably swelled since the 1940s, as have the populations of most places in the UK. They may not be literally six cottages and a bus stop, but you should get my drift in the context of my post. I had the idea that a pacific namer would be carrying the name of a place of some significance.

    Lyme Regis; 3, 671
    Bere Alston; c2,000
    Lynton; 1,157
    Clovelly; 443
    Crediton; 6,837
     
    blink bonny, 7 apr 2019
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  11. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Must try harder....

    Trevone - 537
    Clovelly - 443

    Some of these places really are small!
     
    Big Al, 7 apr 2019
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  12. blink bonny

    blink bonny Member

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    Wasn't trying for an exhaustive list, just some names that sprang to mind.

    I got Clovelly. ;)
     
    blink bonny, 7 apr 2019
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    Big Al vindt dit leuk.
  13. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    Trebetherick would have been a good one, Betjeman's resting place. Then there's Rock, Nanstallon, Grogley, Wenford Bridge, Petrockstow, Smeeth. The possibilities are endless!
     
    30567, 7 apr 2019
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  14. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Indeed. So I'll swap your Clovelly for my Brentor - c 420! Logical or not, they were a lovely set of names and so evocative of the West Country.
     
    Big Al, 7 apr 2019
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  15. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

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    On a similar note what has Sir Eustace Missenden got to do with the Battle of Britain? Also it always seemed that at the end of construction those in charge of naming suddenly realised they'd forgotten the commander of 12 group , Sir Trafford Leigh Mallory and 66 Squadron and slipped them in at the end of a run of West Country names.
     
    Johnb, 7 apr 2019
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  16. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    There are a few names (rather than squadrons) in the B0B locos; Missenden was, in 1940, the Docks and Marine Manager for the Southern Railway, a division that was pretty much in the front line in 1940. So if you were going to recognise a civilian, non-politician, he wasn't a bad choice to represent the significant role the railways, and the SR in particular, played in 1940.

    Tom
     
    Jamessquared, 7 apr 2019
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  17. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Lundy was/is blessed with two IIRC. :)
     
    Spamcan81, 7 apr 2019
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  18. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    IMO Leigh-Mallory was wholly undeserving of an eponymous loco. AVM Quintin Brand, AOC 10 Group was far more deserving.
     
    Spamcan81, 7 apr 2019
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  19. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Both of which had a little more than just a lighthouse, unlike 21C128 :)
     
    Martin Perry, 7 apr 2019
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  20. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    100% Agreed, as regards both actions and geography.
     
    Martin Perry, 7 apr 2019
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