Current and Proposed New-Builds

Do you really think, though, that people are going to put their hands in their pockets for "The same as we already have, but we can paint it a couple of different colours with fractionally less whinging from the paint police"?

 

The early engines had a variety of liveries, though were mostly dark bottle green (there were exceptions though). Under Craven, locos were "Brunswick Green" though the shade seems to varied over time; apparently by the time Craven left office, it was a shade not dissimilar to the green later used by the SE&CR. In addition, locos with wooden boiler lagging sometimes had it as polished wood; sometimes in alternate strips painted vermillion and sage green. After that you go through IEG under Stroudley and continued under Billinton; dark goods green for the goods locos; then umber. In the post WW I period, some locos entered service in works grey and unlined, generally if they had to be pushed into service for the summer before the paint shop had finished, Brighton being perpetually short of locos due to the difficulties at Brighton works. Twelve Radial Tanks of class E4 were also for a time painted khaki while transferred to the ROD during and immediately after World War I.

Peter Wisdom, in the LBSCR part of "Southern Style", gives the following derivation:

"The original colour was known as Scotch green, or engine green, because of the colour of the main constituent pigment Oxford ochre, which is a strongly greenish light ochre [...] It was originally used on the Inverness & Aberdeen Junction Railway, one of the constituents of the Highland Railway, formed by amalgamation in 1866. That company's Locomotive Engineer, William Stroudley, was appointed Locomotive Superintendent of the LB&SCR in November 1869. He took up his new position in February 1870 bringing the colour with him. He improved the colour, by adding a few percent each of chrome yellow, burnt sienna and white, so in line with Victorian terminology it came to be known as Stroudley's Improved Engine Green, a description of the origins as much as the colour produced."​

The same source notes that two Craven 2-2-2s, No 172 and 239, were painted in the livery in April 1870 (two months after Stroudley took up office), named "Chichester" and "Polegate" and presented to the Directors for approval of the new livery, which was given subject to a few minor changes to lining.

Tom

 

Construction of 3' Gauge Blyth for Southwold Railway Trust by NBR Engineering, Darlington

The frame assembly was started today. The boiler was finished last week and awaits final confirmation from British Engineering.

 

Moving along then.... is that 15mm plate? Looks incredibly thin compared with the big engines, Tornado, Clan etc.

 

Given the current appearance of Fenchurch, I think 473 with the current boiler but painted Goods green would be the least of our crimes against livery purism...

Tom

 

Hi Ross

20mm - originals 5/8"

The original was only doing 10-15mph maximum. The stresses and strains are not going to be the same as a main line loco pulling hundreds of tons.

 

After my previous post, I thought to re-check with Hamilton Ellis, who also quotes brunswick green as the "unimproved" livery. I suspect, though, that it would be difficult to persuade you that SECR brunswick green livery would be capable of being "improved"! If a replica (working or otherwise) of a Craven engine were to be produced, the Bluebell would probably be able to use existing paint stocks on it.

Also fished out another old HE book, in which he writes of Craven with some distaste. A picture of a Craven 0-6-0 has a caption describing it as "not a work of consummate art".

 

I know the Southwold wasn't in the high performance league, and I didn't say I thought the frames were inadequate, merely that for a full size(albeit NG) locomotive, the frame plates look very thin.
Anyway, it is great to see this locomotive moving along so very briskly-far quicker than one might have expected.

 

No - I don't expect to see an E4 being the next Bluebell new build, nor was I suggesting it should be subject to a fundraising campaign. It was rather a reflection on a locomotive of manageable complexity, relatively straightforward to maintain and which could have a wide variety of different finishes to maintain interest at each overhaul. To take another example, I suspect you would see quite a bit of interest amongst Bluebell members for a D3 tank. That's different to anything else and a popular (and elegant) wheel arrangement. Actually not a million miles in terms of look and style to an E4, but as far as I am aware, none of them wore a coat of goods green paint. All pure speculation and I for one would perhaps prefer the Bluebell not to go for another new build but encourage people to put money in to the carriage collection instead. Maybe Tom's post further down this discussion of getting Birch Grove into goods green at its next overhaul would be an interesting approach. There are some lovely photos on the Brighton Circle web pages of various locomotives in this livery many of which are clearly ex works.

 

I suppose one way round and perhaps the cheapest way. Would be to build a "new" original type boiler for Birch Grove. I don't know if there have been any alterations to the mechanical half of the loco when the current newer design boiler was built and fitted. The Bluebell could then alternate 5-10 year cycles with the two boiler.

Also quite agree the whole idea IMHO of this thread is to recreate your/my/whoever's favorite extinct type. Just look at the way Mark Allot and Co are going, with their series of new builds...........

 

So actually significantly thicker than the originals.

 

Hopefully it will have to haul a lot more passengers and have a longer life than the originals.

 

Please ignore the first part of this as a separate posting above. My phone does not seem able to cope!

In order to keep everyone up to date on the most inspiring new build (IMHO)...

Cylinders for 4709:
While the original intent was to use the spare casting from the Barry 28xx a lot of thought has gone into the practicalities of this. First off the pair need to be split to allow confirmation of the integrity of each. The possibility exists of finding something nasty in which case all the effort is wasted ..

Assuming all is OK the block still has problems:

• The curvature of the saddle is wrong for the no7 boiler (see below),
• The boiler pitch is too high for the NR loading gauge - about 2 inches needs to be removed
• Once you have done that the block is still too wide for the NR loading gauge severely restricting main line usage - if any. I hear that NR wont even allow out of gauge stock from being moved from the depot to the road loading point. This would seal the loco into the depot. I'm nor sure of the implications of this for 2999.

So a lot of work to make the existing block usable. Hence the decision has been made to cast a new one of suitable dimensions. The advent of polystyrene masters make this nowhere near as big a job as it once was.

Boiler :
Thoughts had been given to using a no1 boiler that is just about authentic. However, the available boiler is ex Barry with all that this entails. It could require a lot spending on it to make to serviceable with no certainty that more is not required at the first 10 year overhaul and after. New boilers are not quite the big deal that they once were (see patriot and standard 3 tank projects - OK the latter is not on the same scale but the same principles apply). Hence the decision has been made to go for a new no 7 boiler. (hooray!!)

All the above taken from the latest update to subscribers.

Mike

 

So, is the new smokebox saddle being made lower, and the boiler being lowered in the frames, or is the saddle going to be manufactured as per the original, and the boiler mountings shortened?

Richard.

 

Not totally certain but the way I read the source document, the intent is to create a saddle speced for the job I.e. 2 inches lower

 

If you're not too worried about exact condition, the Isle of Wight terriers must be candidates too: W8 had at least 8 pre-preservation liveries: IEG, LSWR, FYN, SR early green, SR later green, SR sunshine, 'British Railways' sunshine, Lined BR Black. W11 has 7: IEG (with the gold medal), IWCR red, IWCR black, SR early green, SR later green, SR sunshine and BR lined black. I'm not sure if either got umber before being sold?

 

So apparently, from the 32424 Facebook group, it was announced that the team at the Bluebell would be building a SECR Wainwright E Class 4-4-0 after 32424 is completed.
Kind-of a poor choice, but meh... I'd would've preferred a LBSCR Billinton K Class Mogul. What's your preferral?

 

So organise a group, fund it and build it

 

This has been discussed at some length elsewhere. Its their shed and their toolbox-they can build what they like.
If there are really so many enthusiastic advocates for a K, why don't you organise yourselves and start fundraising to get one built?

 

A lot of people on this forum have a class of locomotive they would like to see rebuilt but unless you have around a million quid going spare then you have to be grate full for what is being rebuilt and give as much support you can afford.