4472 What colour

Do NRM have any plans to acquire Vac Brakes in the future for 4472, or is that undecided at the moment?

 

Perfectly good said of Dreadnought gear sat in the great hall you could nick.........

(runs and hides!)

 

Oh man, that leaves all people restoring Barry wrecks with a problem, they can't fit bits because they haven't got them! Its only vacuum brake gear, its not something out of brain surgery, just get the missing bits made, and fit them. Scotsman had vacuum brakes fitted for 76 of its 85 years, so they should be refitted. The NRM is a museum isn't it?
Daniel

 

What happened to the extra corridor tender?

I remember seeing it at Carnforth a long time ago in a pretty dismantled state. I recently read in an article by Alan Pegler that it originally came from Union of South Africa, dunno which corridoor tender number 9 has these days? Maybe they got it back and refurbished it.

In these days when steam specials have to stop for lengthy meetups with road water tankers, it would be a handy thing to have.

 

Now with 60019? IIRC the tender currently with 60009 was originally with 60700 (W1 4-6-4) but may be totally wrong with that!

 

Jim Rees has been quoted in Railway magazine this month saying “a real Gresley boiler for a real Gresley engine". Does this mean that Scotsman will have a single chimney fitted to her again and also run without smoke deflectors? In my view this would be the only way she could run with a real Gresley boiler.

 

No, no, no! Double Chimney with Smoke Deflectors I think suits her best!

 

No. That's just wrong!
I wish that she had the single chimney and no smoke deflectors.
I can wish what I like 'cos I wont be getting it!
:smt045 :smt045

 

I think it suits her best as well but in BR Green.

 

She should definately be in single chimney form, with no smoke deflectors.

Oh, and with the number 4, in blue and with a face
8-[

 

No one seems to have suggested single chimney, apple green, 103 on the cabside, so just to add to the variety! Still think a nice new GNR tender would look good too.....

 

Well said that man.
Can't see the point in having those German style smoke deflectors on her again.

 

[[/quote]

Well said that man.
Can't see the point in having those German style smoke deflectors on her again.[/quote]


Very, very important, to help minimise drifting exhaust and give the driver a sporting chance of seeing the next signal! Just think how restricted the forward view of the line is from the footplate of a large steam loco compared to any modern traction. It would never do for such a national icon to be involved in at CAT 1 SPAD and risk a major accident......

Perhaps this will be regarded as an inflamatory statement, but surely "safety of the line" is more important than the personal preferences of a few enthusiasts with opinions of the apprearance of a locomotive.

Regards, Neil

 

Well said that man.
Can't see the point in having those German style smoke deflectors on her again.[/quote]


Very, very important, to help minimise drifting exhaust and give the driver a sporting chance of seeing the next signal! Just think how restricted the forward view of the line is from the footplate of a large steam loco compared to any modern traction. It would never do for such a national icon to be involved in at CAT 1 SPAD and risk a major accident......

Perhaps this will be regarded as an inflamatory statement, but surely "safety of the line" is more important than the personal preferences of a few enthusiasts with opinions of the apprearance of a locomotive.

Regards, Neil [/quote]

Blimey Neil, steady on fella you'll be causing world war 3 giving a logistical reason for having smoke deflectors for crew visability and safety over decent photos for all the photters!!!!!

 

For those of us of a certain and experience, however, the German-style windshields actually improve the looks of the A3 design and the fact that they assist the drivers vision from the footplate is heartening support of the decision to retain them.

I notice that recent comments by the A1 supporters that their locomotive has been "altered" to fit in with the modern railway and allow it main line operation - thus deviating from the original design - has not received the same opprobrium as the NRM for simply doing the same to 4472 to ensure its continued main line usage.

A case of double standards - methinks ?

 

We are very fortunately that 4472 has survived at all, having run almost its entire life without the vital safety equipment of the Witt style deflectors to keep steam away from the cab - how it avoided SPAD after SPAD and a major collision appears to be a minor miracle from is said here.

Of course, the reality is that it is the double chimney that made the drifting smoke unacceptable - and this was only refitted to 4472 a few years ago (having previously only been fitted for about 3 years, I believe). Earlier on this in debate, it was similarly stated that A1s (original) and A3s were effectively too weak to be considered any use for puuling trains without a double chimney - so I only assume 4472 had a diesel engine hidden the second tender or its support coach for all those years that it ran in LNER livery as 4472 without a double chimney and blinkers!

Apple Green, single chimney and no deflectors as 4472 and with vacuum brakes so it can visit more than a couple of preserved rilways and genuinely let the people (as opposed to privleged few who can afford mainline prices or access the tours) can travel behind it gets my vote. Considering how much is being spent on restoring a "proper" A3 boiler, I an astounded that these more "authentic" modifications can't be made. The loco actually ran in this considition for the longest period of its life - I know much of that was after 1968 so doesn't count in many enthusiasts' eyes but that is how the public know the loco.

I think I may have just broken a New Year's resolution to avoid being controversial!

 

Whilst unwilling to assist your desire to remain uncontroversial during 2009 my belief was that these improvements such as changing valve settings, double chimneys, Kylchap blastpipe etc were made as much for the sake of fuel economy as for greater pulling power. Given the current cost of quality coal - and the rising costs of same - surely even Gresley couldn't / wouldn't object to the use of cost-reducing measures which allow these fine machines to continue main line operation.

Given that most of these are cosmetic idiosyncracies which only hides the true power - the fire in the belly of the beast at its very heart - which warms the cockles of every true enthusiast's heart then surely it is best to admire the machines as they pass by without questionning the means by which they do so.

 

wouls it not wbe a good idea to reduce the wheel diameter to take account of the modern speed restrictions? (well if others can be contraversial... :-$

 

I have a cunning plan...

I have detailed drawings here (well its a doodle on a back of a reciept, but you get my drift) that will mean that we can have an authentic livery, optimum performance, keep her in the gaze of the public in a form that they will recognise her AND not obscure the drivers view...

First, we restore Scotsman to LNER form with single chimney and lack of deflectors.
We then scrap Ellerman Lines...
Following this, we section Scotsman in the same fashion as Ellerman Lines was and stick her in the empty space!

Wheels powered by electric motor, so no issues about steam or performance, everyone can see her in the Great Hall, and if we really do need an example of her in Brunswick with smoke deflectors, I think that these guys need a job to do now.

How's that for controversial!

 

Ok whilst not being strictly on topic here, can anyone remind me the reasons provided for scotsman being air brake only?
I'm afraid I'm too lazy to trawl through the forums to find it.