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6201 Princess Elizabeth

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Linesider, Aug 29, 2008.

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  1. yanky

    yanky Member

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    It just goes to show that you dont get much for your money anymore.

    What is actually been done for £22500?

    Regards
     
  2. DaveC

    DaveC New Member

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    Hi Yanky,

    I haven’t actually seen John Glaze’s report, or the written quotation (which, contrary to rumour, does exist :) ) but from the letter circulated to the 6201 Society members, the money will cover the replacement of 123 small boiler tubes (the term “small” is amusing, as although the tubes are 2 3/8in diameter, they are 19ft 3in long, resulting in 2368 ft of tube being needed for the refurbishment 8-[ ). In addition to the tubes, a quantity of stay nuts need replacing (I’m not sure how many but I think in excess of 50) and some patch screws will also be replaced (again, I’m not sure of the quantity). The cost also covers the replacement of the brick arch, but as I mentioned earlier, we hope to save money by doing some of the work ourselves. I’ve seen a fascinating video called “Living With Lizzie,” which shows 6201 being maintained when it was based in Hereford and there is footage of the brick arch being replaced by Society members then. Not being versed in railway practice, I was surprised to see that Lizzie’s brick arch isn’t actually made out of bricks, but is constructed by pouring refractory cement over special formers (which are currently kept in storage by the Society). It ends up about 7in thick, takes 3 weeks to cure and appears to need removing by pneumatic drill! 8-[

    Interestingly, Lizzie’s current boiler (9101) was I believe, first fitted to Princess Margaret Rose in 1935, but seems to have done the rounds of a number of the Princess Royal class before ending up on Lizzie.

    Regards,

    Dave.
     
  3. THE MELTER

    THE MELTER Member

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    Dave C
    Thank you for the informative post
    I thought i would thank you as lots of people seem to be without comment or opinion now that the fog is lifting around the loco.
    Good luck in your task.

    The Melter
    PS regarding The brick arch and Hereford. " I was There"
     
  4. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    and I believe that 6203's boiler is that carried by 6202
     
  5. Impala

    Impala Member

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    If you're referring to the turbo, that's only correct in the sense that it was tried out with boiler 9100 (now on 46203) whilst its own was under construction. Apart from that, the turbo always had its own special boiler with high superheat, even when it was converted. That boiler was re-used after Harrow and ended it's life on 46208.
     
  6. plat 9 Brighton

    plat 9 Brighton New Member

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    Dave C Says
    What were the cost of the other quotes and who from, as this was one of the allegations that the society never got quote more than one quote for work when Roy was in charge.
    I would hope that there are other quote or are we being draconian the same as with membership, I am led to believe that if you say you heard on Nat Pres about membership you will not be aloud to join by the chairman.
     
  7. Captain Jack Sparrow

    Captain Jack Sparrow New Member

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    Very informative breakdown of whats required just to keep 6201 in ticket, I take it the loco will have to work hard to regain this outlay, as well as time lost on her ticket. As a result were is the loco going in three years from now, ie after intermediate repair and end of 10 yr ticket. Is it stuff and mount??
     
  8. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    .....................would fit nicely in the space vacated by 4930!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  9. Captain Jack Sparrow

    Captain Jack Sparrow New Member

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    Pardon?? Im asking about 6201's group plans, not SVR Engine House plans. Why is 4930 coming out??
     
  10. 46118

    46118 Part of the furniture

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    Actually Captain, 1472 makes a valid point. We are going to get to a point in the future where some of the large iconic engines will not be overhauled for the forseeable future, because there are simply no funds available. We cannot expect the likes of Jeremy Hosking to cast their net even wider.
    These large engines will need a secure home to preserve them for future generations to enjoy, and in the meantime hopefully be displayed for the general public to enjoy. The NRM has enough engines within its own collection,so where will accommodation be available?

    I would have thought that when Hagley Hall comes out for overhaul, or the Midland Compound goes on its travels, that the Engine House at Highley would be a superb place to exhibit such an engine, and you could rely on the SVR to do a good job explaining the history of such a famous engine.It will into the bargain be kept warm and dry so that if come the day it is reactivated, a period of storage has caused minimal deterioration.

    Let me make it clear that I have no connection with 6201, but maybe like you, a modest "vested interest" as an SVR member.

    No-one is trying to tell these people what to do with their locomotive when it is eventually out of ticket, but it is a suggestion of merit. They will want to consider all options.

    46118
     
  11. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    Appologies for mentioning 4930 Cap'n - but I wonder what Jongo would have to say on the explanation board for 6201?!
     
  12. DaveC

    DaveC New Member

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    1472 I think it might be a tight squeeze, as at 74ft 4 1/4in over buffers, 6201 is 11ft 4in longer! :smt003

    In fact, I understand the Princess Royals were the longest class to run on British metals (apart from the Garratts) and this may also account for Lizzie moving the buffers when we visited Kingswear back in March. ;-)

    In answer to Cap’n Jack’s question, I understand that the Society doesn’t want to operate in deficit, as it has done in recent times and with the heavy work load 6201 achieved in 2008, there is currently surplus in the accounts, the first for quite a while. Therefore, it is hoped that enough money can be raised from donations to cover the cost of the remedial work, allowing any profits made from operations next year to be used to cover general wear and tear running costs.

    As for what happens in three years’ time, well obviously the Society is concentrating on the immediate future at the moment. It’s hard to say what is happening in three months’ time, let alone three years. All I do know is that the Society will have to think long and hard about Lizzie’s future at the end of its ten year ticket in 2012.

    My own opinion and it is only my opinion, is that the massive cost of a major overhaul will be difficult to fund from within the Society. Princess Elizabeth Society Limited is a Limited Company by guarantee, not share capital (and is not a charity) so if the locomotive becomes a financial liability, i.e. the members can no longer afford to run it, then it becomes the responsibility of the Trustees. They will make a decision as to the future of 6201, but I understand that whatever happens, it will never be allowed to disappear abroad, or into private ownership, unless there is a commitment for it to be accessible to the general public. Roger Bell is a highly respected member of the Trustees and I for one would not question his decision. For those who are unfamiliar with the name, Roger, along with David Anderson and Paul Abbot, was instrumental in purchasing 6201 from BR in 1963 for the sum of £2160 (in excess of £100000 in today’s money) and saving this iconic locomotive from the breaker’s torch, which was the fate of all but one other of the Class.

    Interestingly, the initial aim of the Society was merely to restore 6201 as a museum piece, but through the hard work and devotion of the early working parties, it has become a magnificent mainline operator. As far as I know, if funds cannot be found to keep 6201 running in three years’ time, the Trustees will consider all cases for it to be put on display in conditions which guarantee it’s survival for future generations. As 46118 says, the NRM has sufficient exhibits already and I believe has declined 6201. Also, as the SVR is my local railway I agree that the Engine House would be an ideal home (BTW, the SVR had a good stand at the recent Warley Model Railway Exhibition, with some impressive pictures of Lizzie on display) and it is a very professional organization. However, Crewe Heritage Centre has also offered a home for 6201 in the main exhibition hall and Crewe is after all, its spiritual home. But as I say, this decision is a long way off. I may win the lottery and fund the next overhaul myself! :-D

    By the way, the latest news regarding the boiler repairs is that all the small tubes have now been removed and donations have been received to cover the purchase of 50 tubes. So thanks again to those who have already donated to the fund.

    Regards,

    Dave.
     
  13. Captain Jack Sparrow

    Captain Jack Sparrow New Member

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    Nice idea, think you will find 6201 may be a bit tight to get in Highley, not length but wheelbase. Was involved in putting the locos in, I dont think you will get a big pacific in there, easily. Its still not relevant to the 6201 post though really, its just speculation as to were she may go, Im imagining Crewe is the most likely place for her still... She has still got to return to steam again yet.

    The Captain
     
  14. littlenobby

    littlenobby Well-Known Member

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    it would probably mention the word "orrrrrr" in there somewhere....
     
  15. R Barnett

    R Barnett Member

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    Any one know the latest??
     
  16. Ian Riley

    Ian Riley Part of the furniture Loco Owner

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    So then Colin, is Lizzie under cover as you , a Crewe Heritage Centre Trustee stated ..'''will not be outside for the winter months''...?
     
  17. yanky

    yanky Member

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    The Lizzie has been outside everytime i have been to Tescos to do me shopping in Crewe!
     
  18. 76079

    76079 Member

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    Lizzie was being attended to on saturday by at least 11 members of the support crew and a member of the Crewe LNWR "boiler basher" squadron. Grate was being disposed of ready for the new one. All the required stay nuts are under production as i understand it, not sure if the patch screw work has been started, Concrete arch was being disposed of and various other inspections and repairs being undertaken. Tubes are on order Feb/March is the estimate being bounded around although this is subject to all the usual allowances.

    Oh i forgot to mention the old tubes are also out.

    Work on her is really gathering momentum
     
  19. Is this supposed to instill a form of confidence into us?
     
  20. chrishallam

    chrishallam Member

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    Well baring in mind how many loco boilers go to LNWR to get work done on them, the fact that one of their guys is working on Lizzy, I would say 'yes, it is supposed to instil a form of confidence into us'...
     
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