7802 at WSR

As with all preserved railways, things can, and do go wrong, first point, at least no member of the public, or WSR crew appears to have been hurt by the debris , As to what happened and how, that's for the experts and owners of the engine to decide, I would imagine the cost of repairs will have to be met by the WSR via their insurance ,
A lot of the steam engines in use are now getting on for 80 years old, some more, some possibly less, the manors I believe date from 1948 and are still using original castings , or parts that were fitted on its very last BR overhaul, so possibly 60 years old , whilst bores can be sleeved, over time metal can fracture and crack, heat, cooling cycles, rotary forces etc, all can give rise to problems, some of which are not visible to the human eye, and only become visible when using ultra violet , or doing crack detection with magnetic particles.

 

Mods, we appear to have two threads here, 7802 and WSR ops. Can the 7802 thread be moved to Steam, please.

 

I would expect standing orders to be do not disturb it without authority from the person in charge.

 

Clarification noted, with thanks - I agree completely that individuals' names should be kept out of the public eye.

 

Actually 7802 was built in 1938. 7820-9 were built under B.R. in 1950.
Ray.

 

And the apparently-broken-off section inside the crosshead, being protected, will be exactly as it was at the failure, making that determination feasible; the other side of the presumed crack may have been further damaged by/in its travels after exiting the cylinder. (Note the damage to the piping on the rear face of the front buffer, likely caused by the departing piston and/or cover.)

Noel

 

If, and its a big if, the cylinder is not repairable the suppport industry to the heritage lines can cast and machine a replacement cylinder. 50 years ago such an issue would probably have beenn unrecoverable. Let us celebrate what can now be achieved in the preservation world

 

Andy, thanks for carrying out such a clinical examination of the picture, bringing your many years of
experience and professionalism to the issue.

Hopefully this will preempt any conspiracy theorists.

As you say dissapointing for the passengers, particularly distressing for the loco owners and I
suspect something the footplate crew will not forget in a hurry.

As an aside such events were of course not as uncommon as one might imagine both under the
'Big Four' and subsequently BR regimes. I remember a similar incident with a Bulleid Pacific;
even from some distance back in the set the noise remains vivid over fifty years later.

Michael Rowe

 

Indeed, though the law of sod always says that such incidents occur when you can least afford to deal with them. Probably as much a concern as the cost of repair is the ability to cover the service in the interim with one fewer loco than planned: the juggling of locos between planned repairs, annual boiler inspections and washouts to ensure there are always sufficient available for the service is one of the unseen little bits of genius by shed staff rarely perceived from outside. But if you are already running tight, an unplanned failure has bigger consequences, unfortunately.

Tom

 

Am I alone in thinking a couple of things about the very unfortunate failure of 7802:

1. There may well be some greater knowledge behind the detective work about the cause than examining the picture posted here! All I could see on maximum zoom was shadow where the piston rod had broken!
2. But mainly, assuming that detective work is correct, this could be quite a serious incident for the whole movement. At the very least, will all Manors/GWR locos with similar cross-head/piston rod arrangements need to be checked? Given what has been said about the failure appearing to be within the crosshead, this would mean dismantling and I am guessing some form of ultrasonic testing. Will such testing be deemed necessary for a wider range of locos where hidden cracks could be a risk? Will insurers and/or ORR introduce a requirement for periodic ultrasonic testing of motion parts, especially those in the drive 'chain'?

Steven

 

MPIU or even dye penetrant would be all that was needed. I suspect that many railways will do this as routine at the time of overhaul. If not, it is not a huge job to split the crosshead and piston rod and carry it out. A job for doing at the next washout, perhaps?

 

Perhaps you have never tried to split the piston rod from the crosshead of an inside cylinder loco? Getting the cotter out is the easy part, getting a big enough hammer and having room to swing it from underneath to drive the button wedge up is another things entirely! We spent the best part of a day at Foxfield getting one piston rod to let go in one of our Austerity tanks. Not a job to do as part of a washout!

 

.. and I come back to a question that has been raised before - have the parts that have failed been made to the correct metal specification ? I know metal components are normally accompanied by certification but in the past these have found to be questionable hence my concern that the owners of 7802 are simply the latest victims of faulty components / certification.

 

On too many occasions. Hydraulics are easier than a BBH.

 

As Bradley Manor is not a WSR locomotive it just happened to be there at present, maybe the posts concerning the loco would be better within the Steam Traction thread?

 

It would certainly be interesting to see pictures of the other bits that went walkabout as well as sharp close up pics of the rod fracture. Was it an ex BR rod or a new SVR? replacement, its not impossible for the fracture to have started from a flaw within the steel.

 

Pictures have surfaced elsewhere suggesting that Bradley Manor has suffered serious damage to its drivers-side cylinder.

Not wishing to stir trouble or make any assumptions - purely passing on the sad news. I would like to pass on my best wishes to the EMF in getting this sorted.

 

I know that I speak for the ‘traffic’ folk on the WSR in expressing our sympathy for the Erlestoke Manor folk and to say how personally disappointed we are that Bradley will not be with us this summer as planned.

 

Maybe it would help if all the 7802 posts were moved to a thread in Steam traction, as previously requested by myself and at least one other member.