Swanage Railway General Discussion

Has the Bubble car already been certified and had the secondary locking and all the other things done to allow it to operate over NR, AND WHO IS GOING TO PAY? see as I see it SWR don't operate the sandbanks ferry, nor do the local bus company even if it only goes as far as Wareham, there is still the access costs and fuel, manning costs, to be taken into account and that's assuming that a Swanage driver who has signed the route and has the relevant permissions to drive on NR Is available

 

The mainline railway is a VERY different place now compared to when those pioneers came up with their dream of running to Wareham back in the 70s. If only it was as simple as you make it sound

 

All factors that may make it impossible - yet not reasons not to try given the transport difficulties on Purbeck.

 

I am willing to be proved wrong but I was unaware that the Swanage Railway is as yet an approved TOC able to operate over NR metals so who is going to operate it and hence pay for it. Certainly not the new council who only 3 months into existence announced a £12m overspend projection yesterday.
Public transport is not curtailed in Purbeck anyway, it just takes longer on the 50 Bus to and from Bournemouth. Although if you want to go to Poole it is now quicker with many more buses.

 

The current situation with the Wareham DMU's was updated very recently on the SR website https://www.swanagerailway.co.uk/wareham-project-update.

It looks like they are looking at using another TOC pending their own approval :

Pending the granting of a mainline passenger licence to us by the Office of Rail and Road (ORR), we have been holding discussions with a third party licensed train operating company on the possibility of operating the DMUs to Wareham on a limited number of days sometime later in 2019 using suitably qualified Swanage Railway drivers and guards. Any service will obviously be dependent on financial viability.

 

That may be so,but lots of people spent lots of time,energy and more importantly money to see that dream realised. One author called heritage operations Railways in Aspic! The Swanage Railway has the necessary attributes to take Preservation to a new level and many lay people thought that this was the sort of opportunity.
More to the point why after 4 years at Eastleigh and purportedly for the purpose of main line running was the necessary equipment not yet fitted?

 

What leads you to believe that the necessary equipment has not been fitted? just curious as to why.

 

If its fitted and ready to go then why isn,t it operational?

 

Driver training?
TOC approval?
Timetable arrangements with NR?
There could be many reasons.

It's not quite as simple as firing up a DMU, driving it up to the junction and hoping that somehow the points will be switched to allow you onto the mainline. I think you have very unrealistic expectations of how the Swanage Railway can operate a Wareham service. Aspirations from the 70s will have changed in the light of financial, practical and regulatory changes and the railway seems to have accepted this - have you?

Keith

 

Keith's comments say it all really but I will add the following in reply to Oliver's comments about a can do attitude.
Even if everything was in place who is going to fund it?
Even if it was funded today somehow who would operate it? Because I suspect if you ask any TOC or FOC they have no one qualified to drive a Class 121 without any training. and apart from someone like WCRC I doubt any spare crews either.
SWR I see as a no go because they do not have either spare crews or spare units laying around in the hope that something may pop up. This year they seem to be struggling to even operate the Saturday service, let alone every day.
The ferry is a DfT awarded licence and yes 4 Q paths a day exist to Wareham, but I do not see the DfT rushing to provide that as a rail replacement to ferry that is now not being provided.
Remember the ferry may be part of the 50 Bus route but it is mainly a vehicle ferry, I suggest very few of those would abandon a car for a high priced National Network ticket to Wareham plus whatever the add on may be to Corfe or Swanage.

 

The local press are running with the Ferry story daily. What is the perception of JQP reading these stories and the fact that there is a railway line in place and, at great expense,signalled for operation on to the Swanage Branch. Insurmountable problems?
Local Politicians should be petitioning the powers that be to address this situation. Why did SR and DCC spend lots of money on the DMUs if we cannot use them in an exigency such as this. The PR contingent with a rail service would be more than worth it
"Let the Train take the Strain"!

 

I suspect our "wonderful" new council has more pressing issues at the moment than petitioning a government (totally focused on the B word) to try and extract money to run a rail service.
BTW have you actually viewed the Class 121, it is not actually of vast capacity and I suspect most on here no the issues that have occurred in getting the DMU's into service. There were times where I had to stand from Wareham on the 4TC set in 2017, I am not sure the SR would want many people's first impression of the railway to be a replication of the Central Line in the rush hour.

Obviously even the bus company does not even feel it is worthwhile making Wareham Station a stop on the diverted 50 as it is first (or last stop) Poole, which could be done at no cost. They after all run every 30 minutes, not something the railway could do with a single line and one unit.

 

In order to operate into Wareham, at the simplest/highest level, the Swanage Railway needs rolling stock, Track Access Agreement and Operators' Licence (the last two are both issued by ORR). These simple terms high many other requirements!

What does slightly surprise me is, given the obvious long delays caused by sourcing wheelsets etc., why is the service now waiting on the Operators' Licence (and Track Access Agreement?), which could have been applied for separately from the rolling stock progress? True, while it was unforeseeable as to when the stock would be ready, ORR may not have welcomed either Operators' Licence or Track Access applications when there was no prospect of there being available rolling stock, but I can't see any consultations yet started on either document and hence the applications appear to still to be submitted for the ORR process to start.

Steven

 

On capacity,

The bubble car has a seating capacity of 65 persons and a round trip path in the region of 2hrs. 30 persons / hr in each direction. Given the 4 paths, theoretically 260 people per day in each direction.

The Ferry when operating has a capacity for 50 cars and does a round trip in 20m. Assuming an average of 2 people per car that's 300 persons / hr in each direction. It runs from 0700 to 2300. Theoretically up to c.4800 people per day in each direction.

The road has a capacity for about 20 car a Min in each direction through Corfe, Thats 1200 cars / hr. Assuming an average of 2 people per car that's 2400 persons / hr in each direction and open 24hr a day. Theoretically up to c.58,000 people per day in each direction.

These three options are literally orders of magnitude appart. Even if it were possible to run the DMU, and its not, it wouldn't make the tiniest difference to the people of purbeck.

I believe the first service must be run within Three months off the licence being granted. With crew training on the returned DMU only just getting under way and its maintenance facility just being completed at Corfe first SR operated services are not expected to start until next year hence holding back on the application.

 

It takes time to train Staff! Not only has SW staff have to be trained but also NR staff working in the Basingstoke control centre. Things cannot safety be done overnight, so any idea of being able to help out with ferry problems is futile

 

What you say in last para. certainly make sense and sounds correct, but I do wonder why this was only posted on the SR website just over a week ago:


Pending the granting of a mainline passenger licence to us by the Office of Rail and Road (ORR), we have been holding discussions with a third party licensed train operating company on the possibility of operating the DMUs to Wareham on a limited number of days sometime later in 2019 using suitably qualified Swanage Railway drivers and guards. Any service will obviously be dependent on financial viability.


If it's not going to run till 2020, surely much better to announce it now?

 

In an abundance of enthusiasm to please those who must be pleased, I recall something like that being said very early in the year when it became clear that the DMUs wouldn't be fully back and operational until the Autumn but I can't see that news item posted recently. Could you provide a link please?

As far as I know, although ideas and possibilities abound, there is an effort to try to balance expectations with a realistic assessment of capabilities and practicalities. We were perhaps not realistic enough in the early days of this project but after a few punishing rounds in the ring the realities are sinking in.

The connection infrastructure visibly being used and the reappearance of the DMUs is bound to stoke expectations but like an iceberg there is a large mass lurking hidden from sight. Collectively the Operators Licence, Safety Certificate, Track and Station Access Agreements, Type Approvals etc represent an absolutely huge piece of work that is difficult for even rail industry insiders to grasp the scope and extent off.

SR TOC status will be no earlier than next year. I don't know enough to rule in or out whether there will be some third party operation later 2019.

 

It seems to me that the situation has everything to do with The Ferry Company & little to do with The Swanage Railway

 

Thanks for update. Link as requested: https://www.swanagerailway.co.uk/wareham-project-update

Have to agree,from all you say 2019 operation sounds very unlikely. My point was why does the SR not just say so now.

 

Thanks for the link. Interesting.... I was unaware that was still being considered. I suspect the desire to please is very strong and whilst there is a chance something involving a third party operator can be arranged..............

I guess it would be useful experience in preparation for 2020.

As evidenced on this thread the external pressure to deliver is enormous and one can only assume the new Dorset Council and the other major stakeholders in the project are equally impatient.

The key is not allowing ourselves to be coerced in to running before we can walk.