West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Sorry to lose you Dennis , we must have another breakfast sometime , my treat .

 

Its also worth pointing out that the timetable must be attractive to potential travellers, for example in their market the Ffestinion/WHR practice of running a small number of long trains works well for them but I doubt if it would work on the WSR

 

Empty trains are an occupational hazard of a long line that goes to a destination, i.e. somewhere to somewhere where people aren't going to come straight back. Unless the traffic flow is both ways and equally balanced with people going out for the day in both directions and coming back in both directions at the same time. Galas - I do wonder whether some of these are a bit extravagant for the sake of prestige. The WSR does amazing galas, but with fewer visiting locos on offer, I'd still go! I wonder whether the number of people coming just if there are particular visiting locos justifies the expense of hiring so many?

 

The Achilles heel. as many here on NP have observed in the past, is its length. A lot to maintain and operate. Less trains may well mean less visitors from a distance. The M5 in Somerset is notorious for road accidents and closures - every day, according the the BBC web site, it seems there are problems.

 

I dont think many railways have ballanced flows. Even if most customers take the first train of the day their return is spread over two or three trains. The problem is that if you need 8 on the 10.00 you could cut it to 6 for the return. The question then is does the guard do the shunt eating into the PNB or get a voluntere or full time shunter. Not to be forgotten is having a spare siding to put the two coaches and that they need adding back on the service for the next morning. The usual answer is to leave the set alone and haul part filled coaches

 

[QUOTE="threelinkdave] The question then is does the guard do the shunt eating into the PNB or get a voluntere or full time shunter.[/QUOTE]
It may just possibly eat into the loco crew PNB even if there is a Shunter of any ilk present!

 

The NYMR is I believe similarly tidal in traffic flows; and depending on your point of view, almost as long (infrastructure) or longer (round trip, including Whitby) than the WSR. It also gets getting on for twice as many passengers, so I believe.

I recall a recent article in Steam Railway with the NYMR General Manager that seemed to indicate (*) a move towards "airline style" pricing, i.e. trying as far as possible to sell individual seats on specific trains with lower fares on the trains that are generally less popular. For a generation of enthusiasts bought up on the concept of go anywhere, anytime day rovers, that is quite a wrench - but maybe it is the way forward for longer lines where I suspect the vast majority of people do a single out and back journey?

(*) As I recall, I don't have access to the article any more.

Tom

 

Diesels on the GWSR get nothing but complaints, yes when there are diesel galas that brings the numbers in, but only certain engines attract certain people, the normal service trains are avoided by the public, even when you point out that the only passengers are the guard & tti and ask the justification for the service everything goes extremely quite, the most annoying thing is topping and tailing, and the increase wear and tear on the steam locomotives with no financial return doesn't justify its use.

 

Not my experience on the whole as a TTI, the only time I've had passengers complain about diesel haulage is when it was advertised as steam. I assume you know why we're currently topping and tailing - we're not doing it for fun; pulling strings on 8 carriages in the rain certainly isn't fun!

 

I volunteer as a Booking Clerk on the GWSR. While it is true that on non gala days most passengers prefer a steam hauled train, I think that to say that the diesel hauled trains or the DMU get "nothing but complaints" exaggerates things somewhat. It is true that they are not as popular as a steam hauled train, but they still carry a reasonable number of passengers. I dont think I have ever seen a train where the only passengers were guard and TTI, apart from occasionally the final train of the day from Broadway to Toddington, which is a ten minute journey to get the loco and stock back to Toddington where they stable overnight.
The present "top and tail" operation of all trains between Toddington and Broadway is temporary, until a damaged point at Broadway which prevents a loco running round its train can be repaired. The switch from steam to diesel traction at Toddington on the last train of the day to Cheltenham is made for good reason, it allows the steam loco crew to go back to shed and start on the lengthy process of loco disposal around 80 minutes earlier than would otherwise be the case, thus keeping the length of their working day within reasonable bounds.
Finally, I find that if I do have passengers complaining about diesel traction, a suggestion from me that they simply travel one station on the diesel train, and then alight there, spend an hour or so exploring what that station has to offer, and continue their journey on the next steam hauled train, will sometimes work wonders!

Sent from my Lenovo TAB 2 A10-70F using Tapatalk

 

Has anything come out, now that the weekend's over?

Noel

 

Lets not forget that when things go wrong it will usually be a diesel loco that comes and rescues you, to maintain crew competency to operate them for that purpose they need to get some use throughout the year.

 

I can also add that 4270 goes much better with 385 tons rather than 285... Lessons the hunting a bit, as we can keep a steady pull

 

A volunteers response to a couple of points above.
Firstly, on the suggestion that future timetables might be more restricted and more diesel inclined, I can understand why this might make sense both financially and operationally, there would appear to be a number of pros and cons. But don't forget the impact it may have on volunteers. I don't mind the occasional TTI turn on the DMU or diesel, it makes a change and does have a certain charm, but I wouldn't want too many as my main reason for doing this is the enjoyment of riding behind a steam loco.
Secondly, someone earlier commented on the cleanliness of the coaches. My view is that generally the interiors are all quite good, some better than others obviously. When it comes to the exteriors its a different story. Most of the coaches are just downright grubby and stained on the outside. They started the season this way, and they won't get any better until someone gives them a good scrub. It will come off, it wouldn't take a lot of effort. The question is why wasn't this done over the winter period?
With the grubby exteriors and the frequent delays we are experiencing this year, the WSR is giving a good impression of recreating the BR I remember from the 60s and 70s. Not however the experience we should be promoting.

 

But take the SVR as an example - passengers may buy a full line return (which doubles as a Day Rover), but starting from Kidderminster might break their journey at Bewdley/Arley/Highley/Country Park/Hampton Loade before or after their journey to Bridgnorth. Only fully flexible ticketing will cope with these options.

 

Questions that also apply to the NYMR, with likely intermediate destinations of Goathland, Grosmont and Whitby for people doing the whole line. I've not visited the NYMR for a couple of years, but would like to see how that structure works in practice.

 

Indeed, I'm not saying it is necessarily a panacea, merely pointing out that it exists. Ultimately, you would need to have a thorough understanding of traffic patterns; but if the line has a large "tidal" traffic with some trains very busy - and therefore needing to be high capacity - but others less popular, then to the extent that that pattern is predictable, anything that could promote use of the "off peak" services is to be encouraged. If the train runs, the seats have the same impact on operating cost whether they are full or empty...

(As an example - and this might be off beam: if, say, the first "up" service from Minehead and the last "down" service are quiet since they go against the general tide of people travelling to Minehead in the morning and returning to Bishops Lydeard late afternoon, then you could promote a cheap ticket from say, Minehead to Watchet, but only redeemable on the first / last services. The seats are going anyway, so better to get some custom than none; making it a half line only means you don't cannibalise the traffic from people who might otherwise have bought a whole line rover).

Tom

 

Quite. In fact, much as I normally agree with @Jamessquared's take on things, I would say that it is probably the longer lines where people will want to break their journey, explore the area swap trains etc. Indeed, it was always my view that, given that fares would in absolute terms be higher than shorter lines, promoting the flexible ticket as a 'day out by steam train' and accentuating the ability to visit various places along the line as why it amounts to 'value for money' was vital, especially if higher fares were needing to be charged.

I will admit to not knowing the West Somerset well but it seems with places such as Watchet and Dunster (for the more active!) along the line (and of course Blue Anchor next to the beach, Williton, Washford, Crowcombe, and of course cream tea at Stogumber), a day working your way along the line and then back, changing trains, changing direction etc. sounds a really pleasant day out. Families heading for the beach at Minehead might break their journey on the return or the outward.

If pre-booking all seats for an end to end journey only is seen as the 'only means to survive', is that actually 'surviving' in the sense of lines as they current are at all or changing into something completely different? Are preserved railways destined to become the plaything, in terms of affordability of travel, of just the rich as they aim for 'fewer passengers but a better class of passenger' (arguably already happened on the mainline)? What happens to beautifully restored intermediate stations (and the West Somerset has quite few!) if all the passengers travel end to and no part journeys are available?

Steven

 

Also of course the weather can b****r things up, especially on a line like the WSR which runs to a seaside resort