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Isle of Wight Steam Railway

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Freshwater, Nov 12, 2013.

  1. DcB

    DcB Well-Known Member

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    The SWT proposal for the IoW expected to have a decision later this year, has not been published but Modern Railways seems to have got some details. The proposed new passing loop and signalling should allow steam trains into Ryde St Johns.
    But approval seems low on the DFT's list.
    Edit maybe complicated by SWR wanting to renegotiate the franchise?
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
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  2. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    I am not up with the current procedure for closing an ex BR passenger line; and I assume this has not happened for quite a few years. I am aware of the procedure in the 1960s and 1970s and 1980s. I have the 1967 booklet "The Great Isle of Train Robbery", and another book that dealt with the closure of Cefn Onn on the Rhymney Line in 1986.

    Having clapped out rolling stock and everything else unable to support a regular service is one thing. Going through whatever may be the current 'closure procedure' is quite something else. As I understand it, BR only intented to operate the Ryde Pier Head to Shanklin line till 1975, then some sort of shuttle service on Ryde Pier subsequently.

    44 years later...

    Cheers,
    Julian
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
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  3. Adam-Box

    Adam-Box Member

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    If you can ignore the mispronunciations and dont mind the voice, HAI does a reasonable job of explaining the basics of closing a line from 1:11 here . It seems that it's unlikely the Island Line would close both because of this process and because it would be politically toxic.
     
  4. paul1609

    paul1609 New Member

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    Additionally I'd imagine that in the current situation writing the risk assessments for a new heritage operation with droplight windows alongside a national rail service might be problematic.
     
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  5. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    that depends on the timetabling, for instance if the steam service is held at Small brook until the island line train has passed the St johns to Small brook section then the steam train can then be given a green light, to continue down to St Johns, as there would be no other train in section If island line run a half hourly service, then the next service should pass the steam in Ryde St Johns Station the steam should have time to run round then wait for the returning train from pier head and follow once that is at Small brook . that would ensure that any risk is controlled how long would it take to travel Small brook to St Johns, Detach, run round re attach, brake test, could a steam service do that in the time it would take an Island line train to run to Pier head and back to St Johns?
     
  6. DcB

    DcB Well-Known Member

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    Good news for the steam railway the Island Line is to get investment.

    As well as a passing loop at Brading which will allow the steam line dedicated track to work into Ryde St Johns 2021, there is likely to be a rail connection at Ryde St John's so the Island Line and steam railway can share platforms.
    Keeping the Island Line 3rd rail also allows running a preserved 1938 train for special journeys, but kept at the Havenstreet museum. It may need to use the diesel loco to get it from the museum to Ryde St Johns and back?
     
  7. andrewtoplis

    andrewtoplis Well-Known Member

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    Have we seen enough to detail to make those assumptions? If it is online can you link it please?
    We have seen the announcement of the Branding loop and the trains, but I've not seen anything about St Johns
     
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  8. gwalkeriow

    gwalkeriow Well-Known Member

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    Just watched the BBC South news piece on the improvements, it stated the the Steam Railway were not part of the plan
     
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  9. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Once again these are gricer priorities rather than those of either a public service provider on one hand or a visitor attraction on the other. New(er) rolling stock, replacement of some appallingly corrugated rail and the provision of a passing loop to enable an even interval service are obvious advantages. The rest are not..
     
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  10. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    So you don't think the IOWSR Should run into st Johns then, ? If you had your way would the IOWSR even have extended beyond the ashey head shunt as it was then?
     
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  11. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    That is an utter non-sequitur. I understand from others that when Smallbrook opened there was a jump in business followed by a retreat the following year. It took some time for trade to recover which shows that a main line connection is not always what it is trumpeted. Had Island line not had its injection of capital and been forced to close, then getting to St. John's Road would have gained considerably in priority. As it is. I think it is marginal with some operating advantages counterbalance with some disadvantages.
     
  12. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    When the Brading loop is brought into operation, will that impact on the ability for SWR services to call at Smallbrook ? if theres an half hourly service will there be enough time to have that additional stop ? it may well be that the timetable will be too tight, so by having the IOWSR extending its services to St Johns, will allow Smallbrook to be closed . and St Johns becomes the interchange .
     
  13. gwalkeriow

    gwalkeriow Well-Known Member

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    Well their seems to be enough in the timetable at the moment, why would it change if the passing place was Brading? Have I missed something?
     
  14. Steve B

    Steve B Well-Known Member

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    I would assume that SWR, Network Rail, and the other bodies about to invest 10s of millions of pounds into upgrading Island line will have done their sums before committing themselves, and, of all the sums involved, the timetable of a line that is, how shall I put it, somewhat basic, is probably the simplest!

    Steve B
     
  15. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Not sure exactly I understand which additional stop you are talking about - looking currently at RTT, it seems that trains take about 24 minutes in each direction including a stop at Smallbrook Junction with 5 minutes each end to turn round. So one unit can leave either end at hourly intervals with a couple of minutes to spare (i.e. two units could run a twice hourly timetable). I'm not sure why that would change significantly with a different passing place.

    Perhaps a more interesting question (given this is the Steam Railway thread, not the Island Line thread) is what impact running to St Johns would have. The distance is almost exactly a mile, so would probably add about 3 minutes each way if the Smallbrook Junction Stop was omitted (i.e. assuming that station has no future function if the interchange is at St Johns); or 4-5 minutes each way if both stops were included. That assumes that that layout at St Johns allowed the normal very slick IoWSR run rounds. So going to St Johns would add somewhere between 6 and 10 minutes to the round trip time; whether there is scope for that in the layover at Havenstreet on each round trip (when the engine takes water) I don't know. Quite possibly on busy days you might find running to the current service intervals made loading / unloading of each group of passengers quite tight at Havenstreet.

    Tom
     
  16. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    A fair amount of time is needed at Havenstreet as the pedestrian gates giving access to the platform have to be closed before the home signals are cleared and there needs to be a decent amount of station time devoted to handling pushchairs and disabled visitors. Elderly visitors just cannot hurry either. Why should they? This is a leisure attraction and an Arts Council Accredited Museum.

    A glance at the Havenstreet webcam at arrival/departure time on a busy day will reveal what I mean.
     
  17. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Indeed, which was the point I was making. Adding between 6 and 10 minutes to a round trip by going to St Johns would seem to me to require one of a couple of options: add a similar time at Havenstreet (i.e. reduce service frequency slightly) or lose resilience by reduced loading times. Reducing the service frequency has a knock on effect on the length of day: adding ten minutes to each round trip could stretch the crew’s day out by forty or fifty minutes. Then you might also find you need to run the peak timetable more often, which comes at a big operating costs.

    A small change - like a one mile extension - can have all sorts of hidden knock on effects. Often it isn’t the extra dozen shovels of coal that will be the costly bit.

    Tom
     
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  18. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    Do we have anybody on this thread who is actually a volunteer at the IoWSR? (My apologies if I've missed a previous post). I would be interested to hear what their perspective would be on the possibility of running into St John's.

    Also, does anybody know how locos like the Terriers are doing for water after a round trip from Havenstreet? Assuming that would remain the only place with water provision, how would they be able to cope with an extra couple of miles tagged on to the trip, especially if there was a delay for whatever reason?
     
  19. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    There are a number, of whom I am one but not on the operating side. From what I have been told there is not an enormous reserve of water unlike the Ivatts with their large tanks and superheat.
     
  20. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Extending the service to St Johns will have knock on effects, of that there is no doubt, one of which will be watering, because at first, locos will have to do Havenstreet to Ryde, Ryde to Wotton, then back to Havenstreet before they can top up, in the case of a terrier, I would imagine that will not leave much in reserve, Ok, eventually there should be the opportunity to take water at Ryde if the old water mains are still in place from the shed supply or a supply close by that can be used with a water crane. but short term, I doubt the terriers can be risked without having a back up supply of water , once water can be taken, then there should be no limit on what locos can be used .
     
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