Saphos Trains 'Golden Arrow' - 26/10/19

Autumn isn't a red herring. Why should anyone operate differently in Autumn? If the railhead is that bad it won't matter what the load is really, within reason. If it is 'black' and i presume it was then responsibility will always lie with the infrastructure manager.

 

Train companies do operate differently in Autumn though. Leaf fall timetables with slower services. Even LU have specific timetables for this time of year on the Met and Piccadilly lines.
I would say TOC's do and should operate differently in Autumn.

 

Where did I say I was blaming the steam?

Never even mentioned steam in the first place.

 

Not quite the same by a long measure. A plan to avoid a known issue but thwarted, is not the same as not planning for known issue.

because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don't know we don't know

This was very much a known known. We knew we knew.

 

And posted by the most appropriately named person!

 

I agree, this was not just about steam. The issue would have been the same had other, equally under powered for the load in the conditions, traction been supplied for this duty. And, as the example you give shows, even that may not have been enough had the conditions been wrong.

 

To be read to the accompaniment of Paul Simon's "Slip Slidin' Away"; preferably on Vinyl; with a glass of one's favourite tipple:

The Golden Arrow 26th October 2019 - What went on...

We don't venture out on the Southern that often but the Brit was a draw for us so we'd booked it months ago despite the uncomfortable 3 1/2 hours we'd have to spend on an IET getting to and from Paddington. It was just as well it was a late start as due to engineering work the first London service from Bristol wasn't until 0730, arrival at 0915.

Really wet and windy in South Wales but not so bad in Bristol and the weather got better the further east we travelled. Got to Victoria at 0945 and as the sun was over the yardarm somewhere so being a bit thirsty I decided to sample the Loch Lomond New world IPA rather than have another coffee. Wise choice it was too. We joined Tom (@Bullied Pacific) and had a chat about life, railtouring and everything before wandering down to Platform 2 at 1030ish. The diesel was detached with a Red Light on the rear coach. Met our Train Manager who told us that Coach D was up front behind the Support Coach so a good start to the day. I should have realised it was a long train as the locomotive was close to the narrow platform end. Station staff were good and allowed us to have a look up front and take an odd photograph or two though some idiots were the wrong side of the yellow line as a train left Platform 1.

We don't have fond memories of runs behind renamed locomotives as in the past things haven't gone well. Still the 'back from the dead' Iron Duke looked good in Golden Arrow Regalia.

Our seats weren't on the milepost side but the GPS kicked into life straightaway. We left 2 minutes late with a big and noisy shove from the Class 47. We felt when it dropped off as a few yards further on Iron Duke slipped. Guess we were still on the 62r. If not....a portent of things to come? Off into the suburbs and over the junctions on the fast(?). Well we did get to 28 a mile out. Speed fell and the brakes came on as we crossed Voltaire Jn at 15 and fell below 10. As we pulled away alongside Wandsworth Station on our right speed rose from 8 to 14.7 accompanied by a slip. Hmmm. No significant gradient here. Onwards and upwards to Denmark Hill and a rollicking 32 before the brakes came on as we dived into a tunnel. 2 miles out now and another slip on a 200r??? More than a bit worrying.

Opened Nat Pres and found out why. The load was 12 not the expected 11 that in itself was going to be challenging. I did clock the 'Bar Car' and the Pullman liveried Car but assumed they'd replaced other Mk2s that just don't register with me. Onwards out of London and again a slowing for junctions, 15, before Peckham and Rye, 5 miles out, passed at 12 mph. 5 miles in a glorious 15 minutes 40 secs. Why were we here? the little voice in my head asked. For Bearsted and Martin Mill I told it. Nunhead beckoned after almost a mile of 60r/lev/80r. Guess what; Iron Duke slipped just before the station, passed at an exciting 6.6mph; then slipped again a bit later by which time we'd picked up to 9.3. 6 miles in 21 minutes.

Thank goodness for a couple of miles of average 100d to Catford. We raced through Croften Park at 36; 7 miles out in 21m 21s; and got to 39 before easing for Catford, 25. Bit of level and 117d to Bellingham but we were eased down to 19 through the station. We'd experienced a lot of safety valve lifting so Jim had plenty of steam at his disposal. Gentle climb to Beckenham Hill with speed falling to 9.4. Then up the 1/2 mile of lev/100r to a max of 16 but then speed fell back on the close to a mile of 101r to 6.1, 10 miles out on the odometer. Then Iron Duke lost his feet as it were and we slipped and slithered up the climb to a min of 4 as we reached the sanctuary of the short 266r through Ravensbourne Station. Another slip just after we'd 'recovered' to 6.2!! Not good. The Duke held his feet on the 97r and reached a max of 12 before Shortlands Jn, itself passed at 12.4.

Over the top as it were and 32 down through Shortlands Station no doubt to Jim's relief. We hit a max of 36.1 through Bickley, then crossed Bickley Jn at 35. Jim must have enjoyed the downgrade run to St Mary Cray, 64, a bit of proper running at last. Remarkably we were only 11 mins down despite taking 47m 23s to cover only 15m 64c. The brakes came on hard and we rolled through Swanley at 16 and then crossed the junction at 23. The Brit accelerated up the 1/2m of 100r with a longish slip before we dived down into Eynsford Tnl, 100d, at 36. Down the 100d speed rose to 59; then on the 3/4m of 300r/100r/88r to Eynsford Station, 57. Bit saw tooth to the 100r through to Shoreham, 53, then down the 98r/82r/100r braking to Otford Jn, 29, now only 10 down. Safety valves howling again we attacked the mile+ of 200r, 41; then 1/2m of 77r/86r/100r to Kemsing, 34. Then 1/2m+ of 105r to 32.8 before roaring down the mile of 160d/110d/86d to reach 59.

Through Borough Green & Wrotham at 59, then down the 5m of 132r/101r/115r/85r/100r/300r to a max of 70. A gentle climb to East Malling Halt, 52, then to Barming 56, again safety valves howling. Down the 2 1/2m+ of mostly 135d/100d to Maidstone East approach, brakes hard on. There's close to 3/4 of mile of 110r off the platform end, then a 1/4 mile on the level before the fearsome mile and a half of 60r that is Bearsted Bank. This is the sort of bank you could do with a seriously fast approach to, not a 20 mph one.

We slipped early on the 110r with speed falling to 18.4. Bit of refuge in the tunnel and a rise to an encouraging 19.7. Under an overbridge and we slipped again with a rapid fall in speed to 14.2. The trip recorder showed we were under 1/2 mile out of the station, so still on the 110r. Close to the top of the 110r we slipped twice, the second a longer one, with a speed drop to 10.6, accompanied by lifting safety valves. We were in a tree lined cutting and getting worried to say the least. We looked out of the window at the up line and were rather appalled at the state of the railhead. No sheen; just a dull grey coating with leaves ground into the surface. Not good.

A bit of a rally as we hit the sanctuary of the level section, but even then we had 2 short slips but our speed did rise to 11.8. Onto the 60r with plenty of noise from the chimney and the sanders. Soon we had another bout of slipping, one quite long that welcomed the Brit onto the 60r. We were in the middle of the second coach so there was still 200 yards+ of train behind us to be lifted up the bank. There was a short slip 1/4 of a mile into the 60r followed by a second one after which our speed had fallen to 7.4. According to the GPS we were roughly a mile and 12 chains out of the station; so not very far into the 60r. A little further on we came to a stand.

For the next 15 mins or so the crew hand sanded the rails and Jim made a number of careful restarts but each were met with bouts of slipping. In all we'd only crept forward about one and a half cricket pitches in distance before Jim gave best to the bank for the time being. We were told that the Bells and Two Tones water tanker had been called back from Lenham to replenish the Brit's tender as we stood alongside the A20. We had no idea how lone we'd be there or whether any further attempts to restart the train would be made. RTT showed a train in Maidstone East Station but the trains behind it were being diverted around us.

We sat there from 1241 until 1412. While the Brit was being watered the crew had been out hand sanding the track ahead of us. Jim then set back a couple of coach lengths to have the Brit on the rails made shiny by the slipping and gently restarted the train. We made some progress and got to 4.2 mph before more slips brought us to another stand just above Signal ME192. We got going again and made it to the skew bridge that carried the A20 over the railway. One more attempt gained us little momentum before Jim wisely called it a day.

A rescue locomotive was requested and arrived around 1500 hours. With its assistance we got away at 1512. We were held at Ashford International waiting for a path and we toyed with catching a Javelin back to St Pancras. But ever the optimists we stuck with the train in the hope that we would be rerouted to avoid Martin Mill on the return. We finally arrived in Canterbury West at 1630, 4 minutes after we should have left!! We were informed by the Train Manager that Network Rail had given 1745 as our revised departure time and for us to be back at the station by 1730. Seemed wildly optimistic to me bearing in mind the shunt manoeuvres necessary to access the yard.

An hour gave us no time to eat so we just popped to the West Gate Inn for a drink. It's now a very shabby Wetherspoons like so many are. The beer choice was abysmal and I had to settle on a couple of pints of old Peculiar. They were actually quite quaffable.

Back to the station in steady rain. The Brit was still in the sidings taking on coal. No real surprise there. The stock was in the loop behind P2. The Class 66 that had assisted us in was detached and at the end of the loop with red light showing. We could hear another Class 66 burbling away behind P2 waiting to be attached for the return so no chance of a steam hauled return. Our train wasn't on the departure board and we were told there was a succession of late trains due into the station before ours. A couple were due to us but others had been caused by one of their units that had broken down. The only exciting thing that happened was the DB Class 66 setting off a series of detonators as it approached the stock! It was still raining quite hard and the station canopy isn't that big.

After a few trains had arrived and left, the Brit was finally released from the yard and crossed over to rejoin the stock. Still no news of a departure time with late running trains still arriving. Our Train Manager still had no departure details at 1830; nor did the South Eastern folk at the Ticket Office; so we called it a day and spent £33 on a couple of singles to Victoria. We caught the next Southeastern Service and got back to Victoria at 2046. On our journey to Victoria our guard was having trouble interpreting what was happening to our train at Canterbury West. He did eventually get a report that the train had apparently left at 1940 or thereabouts and we followed its progress on Traksy that told us the train it was following us on a more direct route back to Victoria.

Down into the Underground and a Circle Line train wasn't too long rolling in so we got to Paddington at 2118 with just enough time to have a decent large steak and ale pasty and coffee before we boarded the 2133 IET for an uncomfortable run back to Bristol.

I checked on Traksy as we left Paddington at 2133 and duly noted the train had just arrived in Victoria only 85 mins down after a 193 minute late departure. Hopefully everyone made any connections and got home safely.

That was our day. For the record we'd travelled 42 miles 29 chains by steam.

A couple of days on and everything's been said on the forum. Undoubtedly the train was seriously overloaded for the class of locomotive and the route for any time of year, let alone in the leaf fall season. LSL must carry most of the responsibility as the TOC as they must have provided Network Rail with full details of the load prior to the day of travel. It's quite conceivable these days that no-one in NR would have a clue whether or not a Brit was capable of hauling a 12 coach train over the route. But seriously, LSL wouldn't have had needed to have done much in the way of research to find out the loadings that were common for the route in steam days. Why they breached the guidelines for both the train length and weight for a Class 7 in the leaf fall season and the significant gradients enroute are questions someone has to answer. A phone call to the MNLPS might have been a good idea.

Bearsted Bank isn't included in the Significant Gradients Appendix to the Guidelines on Train Lengths and Weights but the guidance states that significant gradients not included must be assessed on a similar basis to those that are. For a Class 7 this means dropping 2 coaches from 12 max to 10 max as it was leaf fall season; then on like for like gradients, as Where's Mazeppa concluded, dropping a further 1 if not 2 coaches from the consist if it was to run unassisted.

Important for the paying passengers was how Saphos coped with their first major problem with a Steam Hauled Train. The answer unfortunately was quite poorly in my humble opinion. The staff were really friendly as always but were as much in the dark as we passengers were. Little useful information was conveyed to us while we sat on Bearsted Bank; not even that we had come to a stand on the steepest bank on the journey. There were few meaningful updates like the prospective arrival time in Canterbury West after we got underway and we knew people were meeting friends there, one being our young friend Dan who it was good to catch up with again. Again it was only just before we alighted at Canterbury West that we were informed that our expected departure time had been changed from 1726 off Canterbury to 1745 with all passengers being requested to return to the station by 1730. Live and learn.

No-one from LSL could ever have been on a steam hauled to Canterbury West or they would have known it takes more like 2 hours to shunt the stock; get the locomotive detached; cross into the loop and set back into to the yard to be coaled and watered in between a succession of service trains. Hopefully a lesson learned for the future.

Thanks to Saphos for their intention of running an interesting Golden Arrow. As always the stock was excellent to travel in and the staff were as friendly as ever and attentive to passengers needs and wants. Thanks to Jeremy Hosking and LSL for turning the Brit out as a close to how Iron Duke would have looked as is now possible. Thanks to the combined DB and LSL crew. Jim Clark can't have enjoyed his day out with a 'Mission Impossible'. Thanks to Network Rail for letting us play on the big railway though their Risk Assessment process was found wanting in accepting such a heavy train with a Pacific up front over the route in the leaf fall season. It wasn't just Bearsted but the always tricky Martin Mill that should have set the red lights flashing. Don't think the RHTT had been out either or if it had it wasn't at all effective.

I hope Saphos find time to do a rerun of the Arrow; preferably in the Spring or early summer with a comfortable load 10!!

Into hibernation now until the 23rd November's Slough to Shrewsbury with No.9.

 

A spectacularly comprehensive report - thanks. A point occurs to me - you report that speed at Bickley was a peak of 36.1 - an increase on that at Shortlands. It's a 1 in 90 climb to Bickley, so did the loco manage significant acceleration on that grade?

A factor that I feared may have been contributory was the dwindling experience in the 'industry' - new TOC players without the requisite knowledge/initiative to run a steam train properly, and in NR to take a proper interest in the requirements. Despite all this in NR, autumn should automatically flag up potential issues for train operation beyond just having RHTTs whizzing around the network from 1 October each year (usually at least two weeks too early), and any non-standard train needs checking thoroughly to ensure its suitability. Even the expected 11 coaches would have been too many. If a TOC has provided a train that was not what was approved, that's a major concern, of course. Perhaps crews need to be given assurance that their refusal to work what they think is too a risky formation will be received positively. According to RTT, an RHTT had worked the route much earlier, but a few hours allows leaves back on the line.

Very generous to thank NR for letting steam on the main line, but they are obliged to do so under Open Access, and they appear to have failed quite badly in ensuring anything like a good trip, and in avoiding huge cumulative delays. BTW, one wonders WHY Bearsted is not in the list of trouble spots - a steep climb after a PSR is a recipe for trouble!

 

Possibly pedantic, but the power wasn't the issue, rather tractive effort (grip) was.

 

What ever it was (and probably a mix of both) you cant complain it was a shortage of steam, the fireman appeared to be raising enough for the Titanic.

 

Not a red herring, because leaf fall season should automatically prompt special scrutiny of train formation proposals. Wet rails also differ wildly - there is a damp/drizzly summer rail, which is tricky, or a downpour-blasted clean but wet rail, which offers far less of a problem. The leaf mulch must have made things much worse - there may have been much better progress with hand sanding without the leaf mulch.

 

I wasn't.

 

I knew you know. I am not one to say I told you so, but I did.

 

What enough steam for the Titanic? (a poor metaphor I know, given its fate)

 

This must be an area where Wikipedia is sadly lacking then, because the various pages I've looked at there tell me that the weight hierarchy went, Mk1/Mk2 (non-aircon), Mk2 (aircon), Mk3. Mk2 aircons are longer than Mk1s and have much more equipment. However, if all that's wrong, it'd be good to have the definitive weights - are they available elsewhere on line?

 

I wasn't saying there wasn't enough steam - quite the opposite; plenty of power but no grip.

 

I will defer to experts on the precise terminology. But as a layman I'll stick with "under powered" on the basis that, in the conditions, the power at the rail was insufficient to move the train.

 

It’s not “insufficienct power at the rail” but simply adhesion. You could argue there was too much power at the rail for the available adhesion.